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After all, what unselfish reasons are there that people are using to justify having kids?

Having children doesn't require "justification". It's in the genes, of normal people.

Perhaps I mistated myself. I certainly didn't mean to imply that having children requires a justification. My point was that calling people who decide not to have children "selfish" doesn't make that much sense to me. When I hear peoples' reasons for wanting to have kids, they all seem pretty selfish to me. Not that there's anything wrong with looking out for yourself first - I just don't understand how deciding to be child free is viewed primarily as a selfish decision, while having children isn't.

When I hear peoples' reasons for wanting to have kids, they all seem pretty selfish to me. Not that there's anything wrong with looking out for yourself first - I just don't understand how deciding to be child free is viewed primarily as a selfish decision, while having children isn't.

There is a fundamental difference between the pleasure of children and the pleasure of something "selfish" that you seem to have overlooked. It's the difference between giving at Christmas and getting your tax return--the first is a response, purely "soulful" if you catch my meaning, in response to an act which diminishes the self; while the second is a response, purely "desireful" (if I may butcher the language a bit), in response to an event which adds to the self. It's the difference between love of something else and love of self. I know not the heart which can't understand this, if only clumsy words could bear it's weight.

> I just don't understand how deciding to be child free is viewed primarily as a selfish decision

If you think about it for a while it will come to you..." -ggg-