As for Maranvilleand Marion vs. Smith, I think that the fielding statistics bears Smith out, most glaringly in fielding percentage, assists and double plays. Same thing goes for Reese, Rizzuto, Wagner, Aparicio, Boudreau, or Appling, just to name a few. Even Mark Belanger can't measure up. Yes, gloves and playing fields are much better today, but the assist and double play numbers demonstrate convincingly Smith's ability to get people out, while his .978 fielding average shows that when he got his hands on the ball, he made the play. And the fact that he got his hands on the ball more than anyone, shows his superior range.
In spite of this, and when also comparing Smith to Speaker, I acknowledge that it is difficult to compare when going beyond the mere numbers, but can you really imagine any of these named shortstops being as athletic and making the plays Smith did? I don't recall ever reading about any of the others doing so. DiMaggio and Mays, whom many people did get to see, where always compared very favorably to Speaker. Thus, since I think we can agree that Smith was a better fielder than DiMaggio or Mays, we can say he is than Speaker as well (although I always like to hear the anecdote that Speaker was so fast that he would always play a shallow centerfield, daring the batters to try to hit it over his head).
Hey, we should be able to agree that this more fun than arguing politics, ain't it? Go Twins!
Thanks :)
As for Maranvilleand Marion vs. Smith, I think that the fielding statistics bears Smith out, most glaringly in fielding percentage, assists and double plays. Same thing goes for Reese, Rizzuto, Wagner, Aparicio, Boudreau, or Appling, just to name a few. Even Mark Belanger can't measure up. Yes, gloves and playing fields are much better today, but the assist and double play numbers demonstrate convincingly Smith's ability to get people out, while his .978 fielding average shows that when he got his hands on the ball, he made the play. And the fact that he got his hands on the ball more than anyone, shows his superior range.
I think when comparing eras, fielding percentage is like comparing apples to oranges. To use the extreme example, Pearce didn't even wear a glove, and now you have guys who can catch small private planes in theirs. That gives guys like Smith and the modern shortstops a big advantage over the old-timers. Maranville played in the small-glove days and Marion's era wasn't much better.
In spite of this, and when also comparing Smith to Speaker, I acknowledge that it is difficult to compare when going beyond the mere numbers, but can you really imagine any of these named shortstops being as athletic and making the plays Smith did? I don't recall ever reading about any of the others doing so. DiMaggio and Mays, whom many people did get to see, where always compared very favorably to Speaker. Thus, since I think we can agree that Smith was a better fielder than DiMaggio or Mays, we can say he is than Speaker as well (although I always like to hear the anecdote that Speaker was so fast that he would always play a shallow centerfield, daring the batters to try to hit it over his head).
Speaker had a ton of outfield assists for a reason .. that's no anecdote. He played a very shallow centerfield from most every account I have read. As for athleticism, you could argue that there aren't any old players who were as athletic as the players of today. I'd expect that Reggie Sanders, for example, is probably a better pure athlete than most of the players in the 30s, 40s and 50s. I don't see that making him a better player, necessarily.
Hey, we should be able to agree that this more fun than arguing politics, ain't it? Go Twins!
You got that right! Give me a good baseball chat any day! I'm not flaming -- but I love to talk baseball as a pure seamhead :)