Posted on 12/24/2001 4:49:53 PM PST by dlt
BEIT SHEMESH (December 25) - The organization that administers Orot school in Beit Shemesh issued an apology yesterday for publicly burning a copy of the New Testament a student received from Christian missionaries.
"Everybody knows we made a mistake," said Jordana Klein, spokeswoman for Sha'alei Torah. "We wouldn't do it again. We don't think it's the right thing to do."
The book-burning took place in the school courtyard the week before Hanukka, after a teacher in the boys' school found that one of his sixth-grade students had brought in a Hebrew copy of the New Testament.
The student received it from local missionaries who, according to Klein, have been active in proselytizing Beit Shemesh children.
"The teacher said: 'God sent it and He gave us the privilege, and we'll be able to burn the New Testament," said Ariel Lesnick, 11, who is in the class.
The teacher consulted with the principal, Rabbi Yair Bachar, said Klein. After receiving approval, the teacher - whose name Klein refused to divulge - took his class outside.
Then, Lesnick said, "We took a few sticks and we burnt it." The teacher emphasized that the book-burning was an anti-missionary activity and not an anti-Christian one, Lesnick said.
After receiving calls from angry parents, Bachar reconsidered the decision, which Klein described as "too hasty." He consulted rabbinic authorities on the issue and decided to appoint Rabbi David Spector - rabbi of the Givat Sharet neighborhood of Beit Shemesh - as a permanent rabbinic decision-maker for the school.
Spector ruled that missionary material should be burned, but it is the sole responsibility of the owner to burn it and the burning should take place in private.
"It was appropriate to burn the New Testament in private," wrote Spector in his ruling. He cited traditional and modern rabbis, including Rabbi Moshe Feinstein, who wrote that he had burned missionary texts, which he called "books of incitement and brainwashing." Such burning is permissible even if the texts include the name of God, Spector said.
The teacher said that if missionary material were found in the school again, it would be thrown into the garbage rather than publicly burned, said Lesnick.
The Education Ministry was not aware of the incident, said spokeswoman Orit Reuveni.
"In principle, the ministry condemns book-burning as an educational act," she said. "We are not aware of this incident, but we will investigate the matter in depth."
Wayne Firestone, director of the Anti-Defamation League here, said the apology is a positive reaction to the school's "inappropriate" decision.
"The issue of conversion obviously is a sensitive one, and school officials are entitled to make requirements to try to protect their students from inappropriate materials entering the school," he said.
"At the same time, the symbolic and actual imagery of burning any books is really an inappropriate reaction to any offensive material. We're encouraged to hear that the school has issued an apology, and we hope that from the apology, they can send a better message to their own students about tolerance of other religions."
Since the burning, Bachar has addressed teachers, parents, and students - particularly the sixth-grade class - about the issue. He emphasized that the school is not against Christians but against Christian attempts to convert Jews, said Klein. The school is also planning programs to increase tolerance, she said.
The student who brought the New Testament in is not the only one missionaries have targeted. After the book-burning, one of the other students in the class said missionaries came to his home and hung a crucifix behind the mezuza, said Lesnick. The family told the missionary they didn't want the crucifix and returned it, he said.
"We obviously have a missionary problem," said Klein. "We weren't even aware of how big a problem it is in our school."
The students that missionaries approach are generally among the native Israelis and immigrants who make up about 40 percent of the student body and tend to live in old Beit Shemesh, said Klein. That section is poorer than the newer section populated mostly by Anglos, who comprise 60 percent of the student body.
The Anglo-Israeli divide may have contributed to a difference in the approach to burning the New Testament. Lesnick, whose family immigrated from New Jersey four years ago, saw that distinction among the boys in his class. "The Israelis thought it was the right thing to do, but for the Americans, you're used to seeing [non-Jews] every day, and you don't do that to somebody that's just a little different than you," he said.
His father, Marc, also noted the difference nationality may have made in the decision. The teacher, he said, is an Israeli who has never left the country. But as an American, he said, "This is not the type of education I want my kids to have. In America, they let you practice your religion, you let them practice their religion, and you kind of coexist."
Book-burning may also invoke different images for Anglos than for Israelis. "The idea of burning in general in our minds has to do with Kristallnacht and the KKK and so on," he said.
But once he brought the issue to the attention of the school, said Marc Lesnick, it "very quickly took the matter really seriously and dealt with it properly afterward."
Lesnick found out about the burning when Ariel came home from school. "My son got home from school that night, and he actually said to me, 'Dad, you know what we did today? Well, we burned the New Testament.' I said, 'You're joking,'" said Lesnick.
He discussed it with the teacher, and a few days later Bachar came to his home to talk about the incident. Lesnick is glad that they have told him they would "definitely not do this again."
Rev. Ray Lockhart, director of the Jerusalem-based Israel Trust of the Anglican Church, said burning the New Testament so publicly was "going over the top somewhat." Lockhart, whose organization focuses on ministry to the Jews, added that it's preferable to get a signed statement from parents before giving Christian scriptures to a minor.
"Clearly no Jewish person would want to see the Tanah being burnt, and would feel that whoever did it, it was an affront to their beliefs," he said.
But the school's apology, said Lockhart, mitigates the offense. "I think it shows that it's sometimes good to have second thoughts, and to recognize that we can all make mistakes in the way we make a response off the cuff without really thinking through all the implications."
Not having a choice??? Forcing? The guy suggested to the other guy. Did he put a gun to his head or threaten him? You are imagining things.
Well, that's an interesting topic, too vast to discuss within this thread. You can join in in the future when something relevant comes up.
It already did. Somehow Jews are responsible for BC/ACE stuff... Did you even research how it came about before you pointed fingers?
If you accept that Jews are historically anti-Russian or anti-Polish, then your statment may be just an observation of a reaction. If you don't accept that, than your statement is self-serving.
Elaborate.
Europe. But because this is not legislated, militant minorities take advantage of that to impose their will of removing Christian references to suit their religious preferences.
To suit their religious preferences? You were just telling me that non religious Jews do this?? What religious preferences do they have? You keep contradicting yourself..
Just because a large fraction of Russian Jews didn't like the Communists, doesn't change the facts, that Bolshevism was sympathized with by a large fraction of Jewish population and they saw it as saving them from oppression.
Kind of like russian peasants/workers so it as saving them from oppression?
I don't see any contradictions. Communism was, on average, favored by the Soviet Jews at one time,
Now you are being plain silly. And by the average it was favored by Soviet russians, so what's your point?
...and then eventually when it wasn't benefitial to them anymore, they became refusniks and anti-Communists.
Interesting. Another Jewish plot? Jews somehow transformed from communists into refusniks? Cute.
When Communism was "good for the Jews", they were Commies.
Psychobabble. When communism was good for the russians, they were commies.. Putin was KGB, was he not?
I see that you still haven't comprehended that it's not a Jew who doesn't want to use a Christian date, but a Jew who doesn't want someone else to use a Christian date, because it's a "smack in the face".
And? As a republican I don't want democrats to do a lot of things to this country, what's your point? Him merely suggesting something to another Jew is just that.. a suggestion.. BC/AC and BCE/CE are currently two standards. USA is officially using BCE/CE... Now, this guy is writing stuff about Judaism to other Jews. What's wrong with the other guy suggesting that he doesn't use Christ, if he has an option not to? How does that offend you?
Not theorizing at all. Merely stating facts as they happened.
How many temples were there before Bolshevik revolution, and how many churches?
Odessa was 30-40% Jewish at one point. It was proportionate.. Jews were pretty religious before the revolution. Yet, there wasn't a single functioning temple and quite a few churches when I was a kid.
Bolsheviks were anti-religion, but what motivated them right after the Bolshevik revolution, was destroying the traditional Russian culture. Christians were persecuted MUCH MORE than Jews, with thousands of priests executed and churches destroyed.
That's such bull and you know it. Russian traditional culture spread all through asia and was forced on other ethnicities that made up the Soviet Union. In fact, I have several friends who are from Uzbekistan.. And they are very surprised at how much more freedom of religion they had there, then Jews in ukraine/russia did. People on the whole were not anti semitic in Asian republics, and Caucus republics. What's interesting is that Armenians and Georgians, who are christian orthodox themselves, got along with Jews just fine. I had quite a few relative in Baku as well, and people from that region were not anti semitic at all.
I have finally found someone from Brighton Beach, who emigrated from Odessa. Finally my stereotypical Ukrainian Jew is on FR!
Great. I have finally found a good ol' stereotypical Russian. So, you didn't answer when I asked if you believed Protocols of Zion to be true or not... So do you?
Uh. That's the stupidest thing I heard. We have a completely different culture, don't beat our wives, and etc :). As I said, just because I am not as religous as others are, doesn't mean my kids won't be. I am bringing up my kids Jewish.
It's ironic, that Brighton Beach residents may be more Soviet now than folks in Russia. Tell me, why do they dress like low-life "gopniks" in Russia would, in Adidas pants and leather jackets?
Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.
Interestingly none of you is speaking out against these missionaries comitting crimes. What surprised me even more, is that those 2 american women who got arrested in Taliban, actually DID do missionary work for which they got arrested. No one even mentioned how stupid they were to go there and do missionary work when they KNEW it was against the law.
You have a culture of Middle Eastern bazaar traders, LOL! I've known quite a few Jewish "refugees", like yourself. You are called "Russian" in Israel and America.
Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.
Yeah, right, with Arab-looking semitic faces.
You have a culture of Middle Eastern bazaar traders, LOL! I've known quite a few Jewish "refugees", like yourself. You are called "Russian" in Israel and America.
Lame. Those are usually the russian relatives of the few Jews who marry ethnic russians.
Yeah, right, with Arab-looking semitic faces.
A Jew complaining to a newspaper because they used a Christian reference in an article is not putting gun to someone's head, it's complaining and trying to force others not to use what Jews find offensive.
I also note, your total inability to use any logic in an argument, but rather stubbornly deny everything like a donkey. You have a different culture alright :-)
Another example of your incorrect generalizations. Muslim republics were the first ones from where the Jews ran away. Let alone Chechnya, for example.
Next thing you'll say the Taliban was better for the Jews, LOL!
You are too ignorant for someone from the Soviet Union, but then "refugees" didn't need any brain to emigrate.
Fortunate for them Jesus said "Forgive them Father for they know not what they do." Even so, these people, and millions just like them have a lot of brass. "Hey Jesus," they shout, "in your face!"
Yeah, well, who knows, maybe the Lord Jesus, the King of the Jews will be in their face when it counts.
But, given my belief in Christ--the Messiah who rode an ass--the Jews were the Chosen Ones.
(And I believe I can make a compelling case for their having held exactly that "special status" among the rest.)
It's just that the continued operation of "Chosen Ones" absent the incarnation of Jesus -- the Jew -- as Christ leaves them forever distanced somehow from the rest of the family of man (and susceptible to being used in a most calculated fashion, IMHO).
I cannot be a Christian without acknowledging the essential truth of the Jewish tradition and the absolute truth of their having been the Chosen People.
That said -- and though it's not for me to force my beliefs on another or fail to respect a man who loves and is obedient to the truth he knows (rather than culling and governing it as necessary for his own "personal values") -- it's almost painful there is no genuine avenue for, much less interest in, proselytization.
There is no way for me to become a Jew. At the essential heart of the matter, then, there is no way for me ever truly to be equal in the eyes of God.
How can that be true?
I'll admit I've no interest in ever reading them cover to cover even if I have perused them looking for clues to the heart of darkness.
One thing that jumped out at me as I was flipping through the book? The way they echoed almost word-for-word Nechaiev's writings on the modeling of the Narodnaya Volya on the Jesuits. "Violence for the body, lies for the soul."
I found it extremely telling that both these so-called Elders AND one of the most militantly atheistic and hateful men ever to walk the planet both took for their own a skewed image of the Jesuits.
The Protocols are not just some bunkum propaganda ... I feel it's quite likely they are the same deadly issue as Nechiaev's Catechism.
If I were seeking an opinion or information on Judaism, I would go to the Jew I perceived was most faithful -- or obedient, in other words -- to the primary source of his faith. I would seek an Orthodox Jew, in other words.
I suggest you do the same where Christianity is concerned.
If you wish, the Catholic Catechism is online and will disabuse you of the misconceptions you have where the "personal opinions" of folks like Luther, Calvin and others are concerned.
No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
Whoever is telling you this info is doing you a disservice. Plenty of Jews did not die as the result of the Holodomor.
To repeat this falsehood comes close to denying the remeberence due the 7-10 million Ukrainians (& Germans) that were starved to death
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