The drug war vs. the war on terror

Chicago Tribune ^ | December 13, 2001 | Steve Chapman

[CrossCheck]

On Oct. 25, six weeks after the worst terrorist atrocities in our history, the United States was bombing Afghanistan, Colin Powell was discussing a post-Taliban government, investigators were grappling with anthrax in the mail, and federal agents were . . . well, they were going after pot smokers in California. If John Ashcroft had been around during the Chicago fire, he would have been handcuffing jaywalkers.

[Texaggie79]

We are responsible for our own actions and the government is not there to protect us from ourselves.

AMEN. Did you read my thread about my letter to my state police and how seatbelt laws are morally wrong?

[LazarusX]

o we'd come through with millions of more addicts crying out for help, and the liberals answering them. What we would have with legalized drugs would be a liberals wet dream.

Maybe, but it couldn't cost more than the current war on drugs. I'm absolutely against our goverment confiscating money from hardworking people and giving it to screwups, but I'd much rather have it be used to help people rather that the current system which harms us all.

I really wish one state would do legalization and that the feds would let them. That state might start out libertarian, but in a few years, it will be more socialist than Mass.

I'd like to see many states try variations on this. marijuana only in some places, prescription maintenance programs for junkies in others, simply not arresting users in some, maybe total legalization with crack on store shelves in a state far from mine ;>

Addicts need gov programs.

Or church programs. a lot of addicts seem to have an emptiness in their lives and fill it with christianity when they quit drugs. It seems to help them more than government programs.

[A.J.Armitage]

Yeah just ask starbucks. They only sale the mild stuff. LMAO!!!!!!

As a matter of fact, they do. The hard stuff would be concentrated caffeine in pill or injectable form. That's what you'd see if caffiene were illegal, and you'd probably be calling it a hard drug and mocking everyone who didn't think it was that bad. If Coke could still contain the substance for which it is named, crack wouldn't exist.

And, of course, there's the example of alcohol. Yes, such things as Everclear or, going down the scale a little, vodka exist. But the drinking of beer far exceeds them.

[Texaggie79]

but I'd much rather have it be used to help people rather that the current system which harms us all.

So you would be fine with a socialist without the WOD, than a Republic with one? I oppose the WOD as well, but that is a bit extreme. I'll take home scans, and no knock drug raids over complete socialism ANYDAY

[LazarusX]

Some of the most stupidest things I have seen humans do. One guy shot a hole in his wall because he thought the government was helping aliens spy on him. He thought he heard them in the wall. The ones I saw at parties were the most aggressive people I have seen.

You must go to different parties than I do. I've never actually seen anyone use crack. I did once see a friend of a friend shooting cocaine. Pretty scary. I tried powder cocaine once many years ago to try to understand what people see in it. It had a mild stimulant effect, and made the other people there get annoying, but no one got aggressive. It doesn't seem to be a big deal unless injected or used in the crack form, and we may have the drug war to thank for those. Used to be people just snorted it and danced. now they smoke it and go crazy.

[Texaggie79]

Caffine pills are quite popular. Look at the impulse section of your local convenient store. But as for drinking coffee, they hafe refined it to about as concentrated as it can get and still taste good.

Plus, many rich people smoke crack, because it gives them more of a high than regular coke. People just want the most, no matter what. The legal status has nothing to do with it.

[LazarusX]

That is one of the lamest words from Libertarians. People who take drugs do it to feel good, or diferent. Forbidden fruit has nothing to do with it. Normalize hard drugs and there can be no other result than a massive increase in use.

I don't think this is true. There's nothing like having drug casualties around to show kids that some drugs are VERY dangerous.

[Texaggie79]

So you would happily watch our nation go down the tubes just so people have the right to take hard drugs, and threaten everyone else by doing so?

[Texaggie79]

There's nothing like having drug casualties around to show kids that some drugs are VERY dangerous.

Just like it stops them from having unprotected sex? Have you seen those numbers?

[LazarusX]

but I'd much rather have it be used to help people rather that the current system which harms us all. So you would be fine with a socialist without the WOD, than a Republic with one? I oppose the WOD as well, but that is a bit extreme. I'll take home scans, and no knock drug raids over complete socialism ANYDAY

You snipped the sentence before that one that said I oppose confiscating the money of hard working people to give it to screwups. I'd prefer we let private organizations handle rehab, but if the government must do something I'd like them to help rather than hurt as they do now. Rehab programs are a far cry from complete socialism (which I absolutely oppose since I believe it encourages people to do nothing with their lives and live off the government dole.) rehab would be far cheaper and doesn't kill americans like the raids.

[LazarusX]

Just like it stops them from having unprotected sex? Have you seen those numbers?

the harm from unprotected sex lacks the visibility of crack use. If there were aids infected pregnant teenagers all around I expect it would cut down on unprotected sex. teenagers tend not to listen to what adults say, but they do believe what they see .

[Texaggie79]

rehab would be far cheaper and doesn't kill americans like the raids.

Rehab would not be all. Rehab is what I want now. What the addicts would need is MONEY and support to live. They wouldn't be able to hold jobs, they would need medical attention, they would want COMPLETE socialism, not just gov backed rehabs. Plus you act as if millions of innocents die in drug raids. This is absolutely false. I oppose them because they are unconstitutional, but I know many DEA agents. They are VERY VERY careful (the ones that care about their job) to get the right guy.

[A.J.Armitage]

Caffine pills are quite popular. Look at the impulse section of your local convenient store. But as for drinking coffee, they hafe refined it to about as concentrated as it can get and still taste good.

There are also caffeinated mints. All the stuff is less than it would be if it were illegal, because of the basic economics of the situation, and not everyone who drinks caffeine winds up popping the pills. Some people want drugs in a hard form, most don't. There can be small shifts, and the market shifts with demand, but there's nothing to support the idea that in all cases people go for the hardest form they can get. The historical experience with alcohol is enough to prove that.

[Texaggie79]

but they do believe what they see .

Just like they see jackass on tv and imitate it.

[Texaggie79]

The historical experience with alcohol is enough to prove that.

Apples and oranges. There are 2 totally different types of people that consume cocaine, and those that just consume alcohol. Most alcohol users simply want a slight change in mood and feeling. Types that take HARD drugs such as coke, heroin, ect want a SEVERE change in mood and feeling. Those types continually look for more and more to satisfy them.

[tpaine]

FreeTally said : -- 'You [tex] are certifiably insane'.

I don't think so. He's a lot extreme about crack in his post, but talking about it doesn't mean he'd really do it. He seems a lot more sensible than the other prohibitionists here.

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After a long study of TA's 'style', I've come to the conclusion that he will say damn near anything for effect, & then backpedal later. He really doesn't care if you think him a fool, as his true need is to keep you responding, & to keep himself as the center of attention.

It may be called the court jester syndrome.

[realpatriot71]

There are 2 totally different types of people that consume cocaine, and those that just consume alcohol. Most alcohol users simply want a slight change in mood and feeling. Types that take HARD drugs such as coke, heroin, ect want a SEVERE change in mood and feeling. Those types continually look for more and more to satisfy them

Looks like you made my point about and the number of people doing drugs after legalization. The people who want hard drugs do them. Those people are doing them right now. Those are not interested will not do them wether they are legal or not.

[Texaggie79]

Those people are doing them right now.

No they are not. I know plenty of people that would do coke, ect if it were legal. They don't want to risk arrest. The people doing it now are those that are willing to risk their freedom for that feeling.

[LazarusX]

Rehab would not be all. Rehab is what I want now. What the addicts would need is MONEY and support to live. They wouldn't be able to hold jobs, they would need medical attention, they would want COMPLETE socialism, not just gov backed rehabs.

I doubt americans would stand for that. We recently cut welfare back to five years (still too long), I think that shows that we're sick of people leeching off of us.

Plus you act as if millions of innocents die in drug raids. This is absolutely false. I oppose them because they are unconstitutional, but I know many DEA agents. They are VERY VERY careful (the ones that care about their job) to get the right guy.

It doesn't take millions of people killed to be a problem. Any killed in this unconstitutional, immoral, counterproductive drug war is too many. There was a priest that had a heart attack when the drug warriors kicked in his door by mistake. a 12 year old was "accidently" shot in the back on his bedroom floor when the officers shotgun discharged by mistake. they never explained why the weapon was pointed at a 12 year old. must have skipped basic gun safety. Family pets have been killed in front of children. this is just a sample. One incident would be too many considering they're trying to block products people want and just create a black market that finances criminals and terrorists.