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To: Timesink
LIBERTARIANS SHOULD FORGET POLITICS AND POLITICIANS AS THERE IS NOW A NEW WAY TO ACHIEVE THEIR GOALS..

Until now, most Americans have been forced to watch our country and its culture drift further and further to the left. Not knowing the true reasons for this degeneration, we have felt helpless to stop it. We have wasted our time and our money supporting political candidates who have cynically sold us false promises about their ability to restore true American values. Now, after years of investigation and with precious little time to spare, DAVID HOROWITZ has finally found the ACTUAL SOURCE of this foul tide. Armed with irrefutable proof, he has exposed the CONSERVATIVE HOLOCAUST that has until now been secreted behind the tall, ivy-covered walls of academia.

Libertarians, I personally urge you to support Mr. Horowitz's campaign in every way possible. Forget the politicians. Instead, speak to your neighbors. Form committees. Demand to see what is actually written in the textbooks given to our kids. Write letters demanding protection for conservative students and faculty. Show up at David's campaign stops. Finally, and most importantly, I urge you to immediately send David as much money as you possibly can to save our conservative values from extinction. And please, DIG DEEP because this is no time for half measures.

With David's leadership, we can and we will DEFEAT INTELLECTUAL TERRORISM and save our country from the evils of FULL BLOWN SOCIALISM.

LET'S ROLL!

5 posted on 12/12/2001 1:05:05 PM PST by IanSherwood
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To: IanSherwood
Hi, Mr. Horowitz.
22 posted on 12/12/2001 1:36:01 PM PST by m1911
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To: IanSherwood
Hi, Mr. Horowitz.
23 posted on 12/12/2001 1:36:04 PM PST by m1911
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To: IanSherwood
Libertarians of the Libertarian party as with all 3rd parties have to be totally ignorant about how our sytem of govenrment works. We have a two party system. The two parties have been in control since 1860. They have made every rule in such a way that third parties are always counter productive. Third party efforts, if effective, always elect the cadidate they like least.

The direction of our nation and its laws can be changed. But the only way that works is to take over one of the two major parties. The Republican party of Teddy Roosevelt was pretty liberal and the Democratic party of that time was pretty conservative. The Deomcrats were dominated by the South where states rights, low taxes, and very limited federal goverment was quite popular. It was the Roosevelt type liberals of the north that dominated the Republican party in the first two decades of this century. But by the mid 1920's conservatives had taken over the Republican party too. As someone said their was not a dimes worth of difference between the two parties.

But the left under the mantle of FDR took over the Democratic party. Using party loyalty they got FDR elected president. Twenty years of FDR made the conservative Democratic party into the liberal Democratic party.

In the South the consrvative Democrats started to move to the Republican party and in new England the liberal Republicans started to move to the Democratic party.

For the first 30 years of the last century the Progressive party tried to make an impact. It Failed. It tried to move the nation to the left and it failed. FDR figured out how to do it and made the Democrats a Leftist party.

But third party people for the most part are afraid to try to move into control a major party. They don't think they could succeed. But the fact is no movement goes from a party with one or two percent support to a party with over 50 percent support in an instant. What they do is take votes from the major party most like them, thus electing the major party least like them. The third party never gets enough votes to win. If the party least like them fails, that results in the dominance of the party most like them and it takes their voters back. That takes them out of the game completely.

But the splinter parties never learn. They keep thinking that they can go from next to nothing to over 50 percent in one election cycle. It has never happened. It never will.

What does a major party do when a splinter party takes a few million votes from them? They look at the few million the splinter party got and say we need all those plus some of the other party to win. Geting the splinter party votes will make some of our voters move to the other party. So that is not a solution. They conclude that the thing to do is to move closer to the other major parties positions. What would happens in real life if the libertarians ever get enough votes to take down a Republican, the Republicans will just move to the left as a result. They will figure getting 6 percent of the Democrat votes would be enought for a Republican victory while getting 100 percent of the libertarian votes would not.

The solution to change is what it has been for 140 years. Get in one of the existing party and change it to your liking.

Barry Goldwater tried it in the Republican party and failed. Reagan did it in the Republican party and succeeded. Back when the Demcocratic party was still dominated by Conservatives, Reagan was a Democrat. But he saw the liberals were well on theway to total control of the Democrats, so he became a Republican and took that party away from the Jerry Fords and other left leaning Republicans.

Will libertarians be astute enough to try a wining approach? Not likely. Third parties just never seem to learn.

24 posted on 12/12/2001 1:40:57 PM PST by Common Tator
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To: IanSherwood
RE #5

There is a group of people in this forum who believe that the unwavering loyalty to one party is the key to advance Conservative causes. But their politicians and leaders constantly play only tactical game to win the next election, moving further away from the ultimate objective. They are not tactical retreats because they have no plan to coming back in double-step later. They just try to squeeze themselves between goal posts which are moving to the left gradually. They say if they win majority, they could reverse it. But unless grassroots demand it, they are happy to stay wherever they are and enjoy benefits of holders of power. They will not embark on moving goal posts to the right for fear that they may rock the boat and make people(media) uncomfortable.

Moving the goal posts to the right can only be done by outside organizations. We need a lot of media outlets fair to us and restore the balance of academia. Republican party is only one of the puzzles, even if it is a rather big piece. Forget the party. Their goals are short-term, relatively speaking. The outside grassroots are the ones who can move the goal posts. We do not want the situation to deteriorate from "Compassionate Republicans" to "Compassionate Compassionate Republicans", ..., etc. At the limit, Pubbies will be not different from Democratic Leadership Council. Some people have the erroneous impression that history does progress to the left and since this is 21st centry, we should be more warm and fuzzy and go more to the left to give soccer-moms more goodies to make them not scared. If that was the case, we should have been right to become socialists/communists back in 60's. After all, history was believed to be in that direction at the time. Don't pay attention to party hacks. They are like football players. To them, win is a win wherever it leads to eventually. They are not being practical. They are being expedient.

It is ironic that the only large group who committed themselves to brining this long-term rightward shift is Unfication Church, "Moonies". If Moonies were left-wing in their theology, despite their suspect theology and strong control of followers, they would not attract as much attention. The reason the lefties go ballistic upon Moonies is that Moonies are doing something ominous to them. They have holding company which holds control over many conservative publications, Washington Times, Reason, etc. These guys are trying to move the goal posts to the right. Why is it that, a guy, Sun-Myong Moon, who was born in the town not far from Kim Il-Sung's hometown, who may only speak rudimentary English is the only one interested in this ? I know many individuals are interested in long-term perspective but none of any significant organizations throws weight behind it. It is rather depressing that it took a leftie defector like Horrowitz to call attention to moving the goal posts. Conservatives are really more ignorant of their enemies than liberals. In that sense, many conservatives are like battered-spouses. You just endure, hoping that enemies will all repent or are gone as long as you do the right thing. Does not work that way. It is not enough to do the right thing. You have to know your enemy and turn their tactics against enemies adn fight. Dead gentlemen are of no use in political change if all of them are gone and subdued.

Lenin incoporated Clausewicz into communist movement, I hear. Leftwing politics are all indebted to him in this respect. Maybe we incoporate more than just Clausewicz. We can incporate Sun-Tzu and other strategists. And modern strategies. Apply them into politics. Also we have better handle on internet technologies. Use them to our advantage. We could use some of their pet strategies. Create underground organization outside campus. Teach kids who are interested in. Teach them all flaws of left-wing ideology. This was the favorite tactics of Marxists. they set up underground unions in the factories and set up underground cells in many organizations. This is originally a Christian invention: all those underground churches in the Roman Empire, the catacomb churches and dining room churches.

One of our main objectives is to convince liberals and their unsuspecting followers that liberals are actually stupid, not smart. Liberals pride themselves in being smart enlightened intellectuals. The victory will come when they do not feel deep down that they are really smart. Make them fall into a pit dug by conservative "morons". And let the world know it using more media reach. We have to use their unwarranted arrogance to our advantage. They think they are smart and we are dumb. So we play dumb. We pretend we are bumbling all the time. They will be very complacent and expose their weakness. When they foolishly exposed their weaknesses, we let them continue as long as possible. Then go to offense. It is the simple strategy but it is one of the best strategy. Many liberals self-worth are tied to their illusion that they are smarter than right-wing "morons". If we shake this core belief, we are in good shape.

42 posted on 12/12/2001 3:09:49 PM PST by TigerLikesRooster
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