Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Time for government to reveal truth about Pearl Harbor
The Baltimore Sun ^ | December 7, 2001 | Lee Gaillard

Posted on 12/07/2001 5:01:33 AM PST by jackbill

Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:36 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last
To: All
Remember, we have to explain not only Pearl Harbor, but also MacArthur's mysterious failure to respond to it, and his letting his planes be caught on the ground many hours after Pearl Harbor.
41 posted on 12/07/2001 7:39:35 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: KentuckyWoman
We did not "force" the Japanese to attack by imposing trade sanctions and demanding they end their invasion of China and Indochina. Before Pearl Harbor the Japanese had occupied Manchuria and begun a war of conquest of the Chinese and Indochinese mainland. It was also clear they were not going to stop there, but were going to move on the Dutch West Indies for oil and other resources and to do that would have to take the Phillipines.

The US unlimatum simply made plain our policy that to avoid war with the US (and implicitly Britain and the Netherlands), Japan had to stop the aggression.

The ludicrous claim that the US "forced" the attack by demanding an end to Japanese warmaking and imposing trade sanctions is identical to the Democrat's claim during the Cold War that we were "forcing" the Soviet Union into the arms race and that if we'd just be nice to the Sov's they would quit the Cold War. You don't cause aggression by demanding aggressors stop.

42 posted on 12/07/2001 7:41:46 AM PST by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
Wasn't the Saratoga also ordered out only a few days prior or do I have it mixed up with another carrier?
43 posted on 12/07/2001 7:53:17 AM PST by KentuckyWoman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: KentuckyWoman
When Pearl Harbor happened, the Saratoga happened to be on the West Coast of California. I don't know how it got there, or why. What your father told you is presumably correct. Maybe somebody on this thread has more info.
44 posted on 12/07/2001 7:56:36 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: conservative cat
Day of Deceit is a piece of crap. "Meticulously researched" means anything by Gordon Prange, such as "At Dawn We Slept."
45 posted on 12/07/2001 7:57:33 AM PST by John H K
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
No, I think he was concerned with the matter at hand, seeing to it that the Japanese attack occurred, and that the U.S. military forces did nothing that could be construed as striking the first blow.

Then why was he having the US Navy -actively- attack German submarines?

Gosh it would be a mess if we got dragged into the war in Europe first, huh?

FDR knew we needed to be in the war. He arranged a climate where that was likely to happen.

But he did not know exactly would happen.

Think about this; what if the Japs had only attacked the Phillipenes? You'd have many in the US saying, "we don't belong in that part of the world anyway." There is no way FDR could cut things that close-- unless the Japs were in on it too. They would have to have agreed to attack PH. It's all too far fetched.

Walt

46 posted on 12/07/2001 7:59:36 AM PST by WhiskeyPapa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
Okay, Okay...try this:

Pearl Harbor: Mother of Conspiracies

As for the trade sanctions - why do you think that Japan SUDDENLY decided to begin taking over everything within any proximity to their country to begin with? The trade sanctions began BEFORE they began their large scale invasions.

47 posted on 12/07/2001 8:00:10 AM PST by KentuckyWoman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
If Saudi Arabia were to cut off oil shipments to us, and we attacked as a result, would you seriously argue that we had not been forced to attack?

On Nov. 26, we made clear to the Japanese that we would not resume our shipments of strategic materials to them unless and until they evacuated not only Indochina and China proper, but Manchuria, which Japan had occupied ten years earlier. No nation was going to accept such a demand, and anyone with any sense had to know that. Suppose Saudi Arabia were to condition further deliveries of oil on our surrendering our Southwest to Mexico. Would that make such an embargo any more acceptable?

48 posted on 12/07/2001 8:00:17 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: WhiskeyPapa
Gosh it would be a mess if we got dragged into the war in Europe first, huh?

Not at all. It was the war in Europe that FDR was primarily interested in getting this country into. But since his attempts to provoke the Germans in the undeclared naval war in the North Atlantic had failed, he had to find another way. War with Japan was just a means to an end, the end being war with Germany.

49 posted on 12/07/2001 8:04:00 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: aristeides; KentuckyWoman
I don't believe we imposed trade sanctions before the Japanese invasion of China.

Saudi Arabia did cut off our oil and we didn't invade them.

We should never demand that one country's occupation of another be ceased if it's more than 10 years old? Well color me stupid, but I was one of those who cheered when President Reagan demanded, "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this Wall!" And you know what, the d__d Wall came down and the Sov's withdrew from E. Germany, Poland, Czechoslovaki, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, some of which had been under occupation for more than 30 years.

Sometimes you just gotta take a stand or decide you're gonna let the bad guys keep on winning.

50 posted on 12/07/2001 8:12:32 AM PST by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
Sometimes you just gotta take a stand or decide you're gonna let the bad guys keep on winning.

Well, we seemed curiously uninterested in the Japanese bad actions in China until FDR decided that was the only way he would be able to get into the war in Europe.

51 posted on 12/07/2001 8:17:15 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 50 | View Replies]

To: jackbill
Everything has to be a conspiracy and of course a democrat is always at the heart of it. Given enough time one could probably put enough spin on any topic to make it look like a conspiracy of one type or another.
52 posted on 12/07/2001 8:19:31 AM PST by MJM59
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jackbill
Take a gander at this review and associated references before you completely buy into just one author's 'take'.

Of particular note is the following extracted paragraph:

A third extreme position of the "guilty" view is currently espoused by revisionist historians such as Henry Clausen and Bruce Lee in Pearl Harbor: Final Judgment (1992) mentioned by Smith, and in books by James Rusbridger, Betrayal at Pearl Harbor (1991), and Robert Stinnett, Day of Deceit (2000), among others.

They often see a political plot by Roosevelt to engage America in World War II and/or cover up their own diplomatic or strategic mistakes. See Frank Mintz's Revisionism and the Origins of Pearl Harbor (1985) for details.

 

Copyright © 2000, H-Net, all rights reserved. This work may be copied for non-profit educational use if proper credit is given to the author and the list.

H-Net Review.jpg (37078 bytes)
Carl Smith. Pearl Harbor: Day of Infamy
. Osprey Military Campaign Series. Oxford and New York: Osprey Publishing, 1999. 104 pp. Maps, illustrations. $17.95 (paper), ISBN 1-84176-075-7.

Reviewed by Charles C. Kolb, National Endowment for the Humanities .
Published by H-US-Japan (September, 2000)

Pearl Harbor: A Concise Assessment of the Day of Infamy/Operation Z

Hundreds of books and thousands of journal articles have been written about the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor -- what the Imperial Japanese Navy called Operation Hawaii (also called Operation Z) and what President Franklin Delano Roosevelt termed "the date which will live in infamy." By this meticulously planned and conducted attack by Japanese air and naval forces, the Japanese Empire destroyed or decimated a major portion of the United States Pacific Fleet while sustaining minor losses. What is it that makes this new entrant into the literature so engaging and compelling? Certainly it is a new and up-to-date telling of the story of that fateful day which brought America legally and forcefully into World War II.

Carl Smith, a writer for popular military magazines who has a life-long fascination with the events of 7 December 1941, begins with a two-page introduction providing essential background, geophysical locations, and an evaluation of the political situation. In the succeeding chapter entitled "Opposing Commanders," mini-biographies of six American and five Japanese leaders are presented. Admiral Husband E. Kimmel (1882-1968), a 1904 graduate of the United States Naval Academy was CINCPAC (Commander in Chief, Pacific Fleet) at the time of the attack. His counterpart, Lieutenant General Walter C. Short (1880-1949) a University of Illinois graduate commissioned into the United States Army in 1901, was the Commander of the Hawaiian Department at the time of the attack. Both the Army and Army Air Force were under his direct command.

Smith does not tell the reader, but Kimmel had succeeded Admiral Joseph Richardson as CINCPAC on 1 February 1941, in the main, because Richardson had questioned the wisdom of the decision to move the Pacific Fleet more or less permanently from San Diego to Pearl Harbor. Since this was a presidential decision backed by the Chief of Naval Operations as a move to deter Japanese activities in the South Pacific, Richardson was replaced. However, Smith does note that Kimmel objected to the transfer of three battleships (Idaho, Mississippi, and New Mexico), the aircraft carrier Yorktown, 4 cruisers, 17 destroyers, and 16 support ships (especially 3 oilers [tankers]), to the Atlantic Fleet to assist our allies-to-be. The British were already benefiting from the Lend Lease Agreement of 3 September 1940 (50 loaned American destroyers for leases of British naval bases) and the thinking in Washington was that Hitler's Nazi Germany would be the impending enemy.

Smith reports that there were eight separate military or congressional investigations of the attack; actually there are nine (Knox, Roberts, Hart, Army, Navy, Clarke, Clausen, Joint Congressional, and Dorn). The Dorn Report completed on 15 December 1995 by Undersecretary of State Edwin Dorn concluded that Kimmel and Short were accountable for their actions and inactions and that "no official remedy" is possible. Your reviewer would point out that there are two diverse positions taken by military and diplomatic historians and the informed public on these investigations. One is that the American desire to keep secret that U.S. cryptanalysts had successfully decrypted the Japanese diplomatic code (the Purple MAGIC code by Lt. Col. Friedman) and were working diligently on the Imperial Japanese Navy's codes (specifically JN-25), therefore Kimmel and Short were denied information about volatile Tokyo-Washington diplomatic events in late November and early December 1941. Coupled with secrecy was the slowness of transmitting vital information to Hawaii on 7 December, hence, the commanders are regarded as "scapegoats." Retired U.S. Navy Captain Edward L. Beach, a pro-Kimmel advocate, authored Scapegoats: A Defense of Kimmel and Short at Pearl Harbor (Annapolis: Naval Institute Press, 1995), a clear assessment of the controversy. Smith does not cite this important work. The general conclusion is that Kimmel and Short, both of whom had retired from the military and had participated actively in the hearings, were guilty of errors of judgement rather than dereliction of duty. This is the position Smith takes.

The opposing view is that the commanders were guilty of not taking more appropriate means to protect the Hawaiian naval and military bases particularly after several War Warning messages had been sent. For example Short was concerned about sabotage by Japanese nationals among others, hence, aircraft were lined up in tight formations on airfields to facilitate security rather than being dispersed as a counter to potential air attack. The possibility of espionage and presence of Japanese agents such as Otto Kuhn was of concern to Short but is not mentioned by Smith. Naval experts felt that Japanese torpedo planes could not function in the shallow water of Pearl Harbor because torpedoes plunge 60-75 feet when dropped initially and the harbor at Pearl was only 40 feet deep. Rear Admiral Patrick Bellinger, Pearl Harbor's Air Defense Officer, actually predicted an attack. The successful British torpedo attack against the Italian fleet at Taranto on 11 November 1940 presaged the strategy and tactics employed at Pearl Harbor. A Japanese naval attack on Pearl Harbor was postulated by Hector Bywater in Sea Power in the Pacific (1921) and The Great Pacific War: A History of the American-Japanese Campaign of 1931-33 (1925), as well as in a 21 January 1930 Saturday Evening Post article by Lieutenant Stephen Jurika Jr. in which a simulated attack on Pearl Harbor by aircraft from USS Saratoga was reviewed.

In Pearl Harbor and the Kimmel Controversy: The Views Today edited by David Winkler and Jennifer Lloyd, proponents for exoneration (Retired U.S. Navy Captain Beach), for accountability (Retired U.S. Navy Captain Larry Seaquist), for the status quo (U.S. Naval Academy historian Robert Love, Ph.D.), and for promotion (Retired Vice Admiral David Richardson) presented their cases appropriately on 7 December 1999 to a panel of naval historians (David Rosenberg, John Prados, and Norman Polmar) and an audience of naval officers and civilians. A third extreme position of the "guilty" view is currently espoused by revisionist historians such as Henry Clausen and Bruce Lee in Pearl Harbor: Final Judgment (1992) mentioned by Smith, and in books by James Rusbridger, Betrayal at Pearl Harbor (1991), and Robert Stinnett, Day of Deceit (2000), among others. They often see a political plot by Roosevelt to engage America in World War II and/or cover up their own diplomatic or strategic mistakes. See Frank Mintz's Revisionism and the Origins of Pearl Harbor (1985) for details.

The other Americans profiled In "Opposing Commanders" include the Chief of Naval Operations Admiral Harold Stark (1880-1972), General George C. Marshall (1880-1959) the Army Chief of Staff, Secretary of State Cordell Hull (1871-1955), and Franklin Delano Roosevelt (1882-1945) who Smith states "served four consecutive terms" 1933-1945 (p. 13). Actually he was "elected" to four consecutive terms but died during the fourth on 12 April 1945. Emphasis is placed on Fleet Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto (1884-1943), a naval school graduate wounded at the Battle of Tshushima (sic. Tsushima, 27-29 May 1905) during the Russo-Japanese War. He became head of a naval aviation training base, served as naval attache to Washington, was Vice Minister of the Imperial Japanese Navy, championed the use of aircraft carriers, and planned the Pearl Harbor attack, but died in April 1943 during the battle for Guadalcanal when American aircraft shot down his transport plane. Commander Mitsuo Fuchida (1902-1956), a Japanese Naval Academy graduate who espoused naval air power and was an expert in torpedo attacks, coordinated that part of the attack. Commander Minoru Genda (1904-1989), another Naval Academy graduate, was air operations officer. Vice-Admiral Chuichi Nagumo (1887-1944) was commander of the First Air Fleet at Pearl Harbor and later served in the Dutch East Indies, Indian Ocean, and at the Battle of Midway where he lost four aircraft carriers. He committed suicide in 1944. Author Smith's other choice as a commander is Ambassador Kichisaburo Nomura (1877-1964), a graduate of the Naval Academy and former Commander (rank of Admiral) of the Third Fleet, who was Japanese Ambassador to Washington and delivered the message breaking off the diplomatic negotiations after the attack had begun. Prime Minister Hideki Tojo, Special Envoy Saburo Kurusu, and Emperor Hirohito are not profiled.

Smith provides a very clear and useful "Chronology" of the key events starting in 1936 (one event), but especially from 1939 to February 1942. He next considers the "Japanese Plan" including Japanese expansion, the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, American embargoes, Japanese-American diplomatic negotiations by Nomura, the infamous 14-part diplomatic message, the three phases of Operation Hawaii, preparations (attack plans, torpedo modifications, and American ship positions). Smith mentions that three MAGIC decoders were sent to London (p. 28); I recall that only one was sent. The Japanese task force composition is considered, including the six aircraft carriers (Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu, Shokaku, and Zuikaku). "The First Wave" --the period from 0750-0810 hours -- is recounted, including the attack on the fleet, Ford Island /Pearl Harbor Naval Air Station, and Hickam Field Army Air Base (0755-0920 hours).

"The Second Wave" relates attacks against Ewa Marine Air Corps Station, the Army's Bellows and Wheeler air fields, Schofield Barracks at the latter, and Kaneohe Naval Air Station. "Aftermath" is a unique and compelling review of Japanese damage assessment perceptions and the actual American losses -- more than 3,400 casualties, ships (8 battleships sunk or heavily damaged [USS Arizona, California, Maryland, Nevada, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, and West Virginia], 3 cruisers and 8 destroyers damaged), aircraft (169 lost [92 Navy and 77 Army] and another 150 damaged [31 Navy and 128 Army]) -- note that the latter figures do not total (p. 73). Japanese losses are also documented but minimal attention is paid to the two-man Japanese submarines that were to penetrate the U.S. naval base.

"Further Reading" contains a list of 43 books; there are additional sources that might have been included: S.E. Morison's classic third volume of History of United States Naval Operations in World War II: The Rising Sun in the Pacific, 1931-April 1942 (1948), John Prados's Combined Fleet Decoded (1995), and Stanley Weintraub's Long Day's Journey into War (1991). In "Wargaming Pearl Harbor" Smith notes that there is no simulation board game. He is in error; "Pearl Harbor: The War Against Japan, 1941-1945" (Designers' Workshop, 2nd ed. 1979) is a strategic-level game designed by John Prados and developed by Marc Miller and John Astell. "Pearl Harbor Today" provides information how to visit Pearl Harbor and the National Park Service's Visitor Center at USS Arizona, dedicated in 1962, which hosts 1.5 million visitors per year. Smith fails to mention that since 22 June 1998, the USS Missouri (on which the documents of surrender were signed on 2 September 1945, ending the Pacific War) is currently anchored at Pier F-5 on "Battleship Row" in Pearl Harbor pending transfer to a permanent site at F-2 and F-3 in 2002. Eight appendices (pp. 90-103) provide important documentation not found in similar publications: U.S. Fleet Order of Battle (223 ships tabulated). Japanese Fleet Order of Battle (66 ships), Japanese Aircraft a Pearl Harbor (specifications on seven types), U.S. Aircraft at Pearl Harbor (specifications on 18 types), Japanese First Wave Attack Formation (16 units), Japanese Second Wave Attack Formation (10 units), Japanese Organization, and U.S. Organization.

As a relatively inexpensive, comprehensive synthesis, Smith's book updates and expands Pearl Harbor by A.J. Barker. Smith's volume has 67 monochrome and 16 color illustrations. The latter include magnificently detailed political maps and attack plans -- the best in any compendia about the attack. The well-chosen illustrations, chronologies, and detailed appendices with its wealth of materials and data are significant contributions to the general literature, making this volume especially valuable as a basic resource despite the shortcomings noted..

Although successful in destroying or disabling the major capital ships of the Pacific Fleet, the Japanese plan had fatal flaws, especially that the American aircraft carriers were not in port and escaped attack, and the plan neglected to include the destruction of vital oil tanks and naval repair facilities at Pearl Harbor. The shallow harbor at Pearl aided in the resurrection of the fleet -- a far different circumstance than if the capital ships had been sunk in the open ocean where they could not be raised and repaired. The destruction of these would have inevitably prolonged the war but not its eventual outcome.


53 posted on 12/07/2001 8:24:36 AM PST by _Jim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: aristeides
When the Japanese occupied Manchuria in the early 30's it appeared to be a bad act that we should oppose but not serious enough to go to war over.

By the time the Japanese invaded China it was obvious that a world war would decide whether fascism or Western-style representative government would survive. The Japanese war party's decision to invade all of China and desire to occupy or dominate the balance of east Asia was a sufficient threat to the US to justify war.

I don't fault Roosevelt for viewing the European threat posed by Germany and Italy as the primary threat and the Japanese, while serious enough to go to war over, as secondary. He was right, stragically and tactically.

54 posted on 12/07/2001 8:27:39 AM PST by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: _Jim
Take a gander at this review and associated references before you completely buy into just one author's 'take'.

1. I took a gander and didn't see the "author" refute anything that Stinnett said - he just called him a "revisionist historian".

2. I haven't bought into anything. I just find the details raised by Stinnett to be interesting and in conflict with some of the "non-revisionist historians".

3. I suspect that some of the conflict could be resolved by the release of all information.

4. The fact that the government won't release the information makes me ask the questions: After 60 years, do we still have a "national security" interest in keeping these things secret? If not, what other reason can there be for refusal?

55 posted on 12/07/2001 9:11:17 AM PST by jackbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 53 | View Replies]

To: jackbill
"One can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink ..."

I guess it's true ...

56 posted on 12/07/2001 9:37:02 AM PST by _Jim
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: _Jim
I guess it's true ...

I guess they were successful with you. How'd the water taste?

57 posted on 12/07/2001 10:19:29 AM PST by jackbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 56 | View Replies]

To: wwjdn
"Hind site is always 20-20!

What a bunch of crap!

Just because this wasn't published in the New York Times on November 7, 1941 - in no way means that most, if not all, of it can't be the actual truth.

Do I believe every word....maybe...maybe not...

But, to summarily dismiss a complete body of work…....on the basis that I, alone, find fault with it…..is, to say the least, ludicrous.

58 posted on 12/07/2001 10:57:38 AM PST by Alabama_Wild_Man
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker
The clash on the Marco Polo Bridge, which precipitated the Japanese attack on China proper, as opposed to Manchuria, was on July 7, 1937. By the end of 1937, the Japanese had taken Peiping, Tientsin, Shanghai, and Nanking, and the Rape of Nanking and the Panay incident had happened. The U.S. chose to ignore all these things, and even accepted a Japanese apology over the Panay incident. Four more years of bloody war filled with atrocities in China followed before FDR chose to react.
59 posted on 12/07/2001 11:38:43 AM PST by aristeides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 54 | View Replies]

To: skeeter
We hadn't broken any military codes before the war, we had broken the Japanese' diplomatic code.

According to Stinnett, we had broken the Japanese military codes. He repeats his claim again in today's article in the Providence Journal, which you can read here:

Deconstructing the "Day of Deceit"

60 posted on 12/07/2001 12:14:37 PM PST by jackbill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-94 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson