Posted on 11/24/2001 2:08:47 AM PST by kattracks
Edited on 05/26/2004 5:02:25 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
I find your concern for the well being of the church of Jesus Christ touching..You said it all..you have no interst in the word of God,in being obedient to God and you pretend concern that this will "turn "people away" no my friend it is the time when the wheat and chaff will be seperated..
I will never call myself Christian again. While I know that you represent the majority and they represent a rather insignificant minority, they're loud and they're ever present and I don't want to share any labels with them. It's bad enough I share the label of American (and now Freeper, and they have caused me to seriously reconsider that on ocassion) with them; but I will not share the label they are most proud of, the one they wave as a rallying banner and brandish as a weapon against the "unbelievers". If I ever convert back I'll be making a new word for it, and I'll borrow a page from L. Ron Hubbard and copyright it so I can sue them if they try to use it.
I trust that those that say they are followers of Jeus Christ understand that the lost have no true concern for the things of God. You have a label that I do not wear..lost...and as for those that have been vocal in their warnings..I believe you are correct we are a minority..but Jesus said that would be so "Many are called but few are choosen" ,when some come to Him crying "Lord ,Lord".He will say "I knew you not"
Now how do I know that? Simple you can not decide which of God's word you choose to accept..if you are His you take Him at His word..all of it.
I expect heathans to like this book..the surprise to me is how few obedient Christians there are
No I just need to read your profile..you hate God..
I don't trust the major religions of the world, nor do I consider myself religious. I have found that, regardless of the religious sect you belong to, how you live your life will be how you are judged. If you want to call me a heretic, go ahead, you have to live with your beliefs.
Someone else said.. "They will soon be attackin *Lord of the Rings*", the movie coming next that is from another great Fiction novel . I think they will too. There are always this type of judgemental Christians. They give Christianity a black eye.
As I said before, this type of radical element is a deterrent to the cause they claim to promote. Be it pro-lifers who kill in the name of the unborn, or anti-government types like Timothy McVeigh who KILL in the name of our Constitution, or Religious zealots like the Taliban who JUDGE and punish even to death everyone and everything that doesn't think and act EXACTLY like they want them to. They loose more followers than they gain.. THANK GOD!! There always seems to be people like that. I think they probably need our prayers the most.
I firmly believe that we bring more people to have a personal relationship with the Lord when we love unconditionally, when we leave the judging to HIM,..and when we use the good sense the Lord gave us. I think you get it. Just ignore the radical elements of anything. God teaches through love, and by example.
I do think some of us felt compelled as Christians to intercede when we saw some professing to judge this movie as evil and any who watched it as Non Believers. I don't profess to speak for all Christians, but I do know I speak for some. I just don't want people to think ALL Christians are this shallow minded. Yes, those people who profess to be Christians have a right to voice their opinion, but not to say they speak for God or for me or like minded people like me. But they are really getting old with all their ranting and raving about this movie. I think they have spurred a lot of people to go see it. A lot of us have seen it now,..and now realize they are hypocrits in this regard and are LYING.
I honestly think the people who "blindly" follow their Ministers are dangerous. I can't help but think of the people who followed "Jones". They committed Mass Suicide.
The Lord expects us to USE the gift of cognitive process that he gave us. Some choose not to do so on their own, and the religious leaders who they follow, prefer it that way!! I would consider THAT sinful. Just food for thought.
I do understand where your coming from NoPardons. I think you probably "GET" Christianity better than most of those who proclaim they know all about it.
For me,.. I'm a "PRACTICING" Christian, in that I'm constantly learning!!! Until the day I die.. I'll be learning.
I think it is really frightening for anyone to say they know EVERYTHING,.. There is only ONE entity that is ALL KNOWING!! Maybe one day when I die I will be blessed and given the purest form of that knowledge. I hope I will be blessed by seeing God face to face one day. God Willing I will :o)
Until then, I will just continue to realize I don't know all,..and continue to learn with the best of my ability.
In closing, I have to say that every time I read the Bible, I find it fascinating. One time I read a verse one way,...and it means one thing. Then the second or third time I read a verse it will be like a light went on. A new meaning will just come to me from it. I don't think we are meant to read the Bible just once. I think it is the "LIVING" word of God. If we ask for knowledge,.. if we really delve into the Word,.. we will continue to grow. I think it is meant to be that way. It is meant to be ALIVE, and to give me the comfort and knowledge I need. Knowledge will just keep pouring into our hearts as long as we keep them open. I feel sad to realize that some Christians think that once they've read a verse, their interpretation is the only one. That really limits what God wanted us to learn from the Bible. It just is such an Awesome book.. and God is such an Awesome God!!! :o)
I've read posts by you for a couple years. You seem like a really nice person. I like how you think!! I just wanted you to know I read some of the things written back to you..and I personally think your thinking is on the right track.
God Bless,.. Mary Ann
Oh that's a beaut. First you comment on the general prevelence of lies, as a response to the fact that people lie about Harry Potter. Then, as if to prove your point, you lie about Harry Potter.
OK here's the low down. For about 22 years a certain subsection of the Christian community (one with higly dubious intellect) has been picking on certain subsections of popular culture and entertainment. Spreading utter BS and total lies about them. Talking about them causing satanism, teaching the occult, warping minds away from God. First it was D&D, then heavy metal (full disclosure, yes there have been satanic heavy metal bands, they never did real well, nobody liked them, cause they sucked; everybody's favorite "satanic" metal band Black Sabbath had a born again Christian for a lead singer (Ozzy), sorry guys you lose), then Doom, then Vampire (cool RPG, kind of a wierd subcrowd that played it heavily, not wierd like normal hardcore RPGers, wierd in a totally different way), then Magic the Gathering got a little press but it wasn't popular anymore by the time certain Christian's started gunning for it, now Harry Potter.
And it's the same crap every time: it's satanic, it teaches the occult, it portrays witchcraft in a good light, it woo's kids away from the church, yadda yadda yadda. You can write half the next generation of articles just by doing a global search and replace with the articles on the last topic du jur. And every single time (with the exception of Danzig and King Diamond) they are wrong. Pure and simple, wrong, BS, no foundation in truth, written with no actual knowledge of the thing they're writing about or the evils they say it's drawing kids to. They build on a foundation of "evidence" that's usually one whacked out kid in Florida who probably should have been committed long before the "evil" thing got published in the first place. Then they take misquote (and sometimes outright made up BS that never happened) as "proof".
And you're post here is a classic example. Some pinhead that doesn't know anything about the occult (like the guy in last weeks article that says he was close personal friends with traitors... well he says "warlocks" but the Wiccan community uses the original definition of that word which is traitor) tell you there are real spell in Harry Potter, even though it's probable he's never read of the books, and plainly obvious they guy would know a real spell if it were cast on him. Next you have 20 or 30 people who have actually read the book, some of whom have actually done some studying in the occult (after a decade of being told you're a satanist because of your hobby, inspite of being born again during that time period and going to church fairly regularly, there's not much else to do), are standing up and saying "there are no "real" spells in Harry Potter, if you can get a feather to float doing what they do film it, we can make money at this". But you don't believe them, actually you completely ignore them. They post some huge post giving you all kinds of cool stuff to work with and all you can do is repeat what was just refuted.
See it's personal for people like me because you and people like you say I'm an occultist baby killer but you refuse to tell me where my sacrificial knife is. It's personal for people like vets because you make her look bad and cause people like me to have a bad reaction to people like her when they say they're Christian. And I guess it's personal for people like you because if you ever figure out that you're full of BS you'll lose your purpose in life.
BTW, you guys should turn your guns back on D&D for old times' sake. 3rd Edition Player's Handbook kicked HP out of the number 1 spot. D&D is back and raking in bucks just as fast as Potter.
I have a few questions for you... If you were a Christian at one time... did you read the Bible, or did you just go by what a few 'loud' Christians were saying? As I said in this post, the Bible is very clear about witchcraft and the occult. You can click on those scriptures and see for yourself.
When you called yourself a Christian, did you believe the Bible or not?
I am not condemned by GOD. Cherrypicking scriptures, doesn't really work as refutation. Nowhere, in either the OT, nor in the NT, is it stated that reading books about a fantasy world , which has wizaedry in it, is a sin, immoral, against GOD's teachings. It says things like " Do not suffer a witch to live ", and don't consort ( that means be up close and personal with, ask advice from, pay for the services of ) with witchs. K ?
You do keep ignoring salient points , so I'll repeat. Wasn't Joseph foretelling the future ( dabbling in witchcraft / the occult ) when he told Pharoh, what the meaning of his dreams meant ? Was Joseph punished ? NO, he was rewarded. Did Moses engage in magic ? Why, yes he did.
Have you EVER read / told / taken your children to see movies and / or stage plays , stories that contained witches, wizards, fairies, and magic ? If you jave, then your posts to others are hyocritical.
WHy do I post on these threads ? To countermand the lies and misinformation spread by others; that's why. We don't need any more " witch trials " in this country. Innocent people were murdered, because some people had their own agendas . Bearing false witness, in case you have forgotten, is breaking one of the 10 Commandments, and that is exactly what many do on these threads.
Did I say that about you? Show me OK? You are not a Christian..go do what you want to do..this is a free country...now on a day certain you will get to meet God..then He can explain what he meant.
My purpose in posting was for Christians to rethink taking their kids..those of you that want to go ..go....
"But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord"
No I do not deny that I have frequently asked people that say they are Christians where their heart is..Did that poster answer me..I will bet not...the reason? Well you figure it out :>) Have you spent as much time reading the word of God with your children as you have HP?
I will not imply it I will say it outright ..a truly born again believer will not take their children to see that movie.Is that plain enough? Now I do not care if millions see it..if little HP covens are set up on every corner..this is America.
I am not condemned by GOD. Cherrypicking scriptures, doesn't really work as refutation. Nowhere, in either the OT, nor in the NT, is it stated that reading books about a fantasy world , which has wizaedry in it, is a sin, immoral, against GOD's teachings. It says things like " Do not suffer a witch to live ", and don't consort ( that means be up close and personal with, ask advice from, pay for the services of ) with witchs. K ?
LOL LOL..by that standard abortion is fine right? Did you even read the scriptures I posted..God condems outright witchcraft...
You do keep ignoring salient points , so I'll repeat. Wasn't Joseph foretelling the future ( dabbling in witchcraft / the occult ) when he told Pharoh, what the meaning of his dreams meant ? Was Joseph punished ? NO, he was rewarded. Did Moses engage in magic ? Why, yes he did.
You are spiritual blind..so I would expect you to confuse knowlege given by God to witchcraft. You do not know the difference..I now understand why you can defend this movie with such vigor..the work of God is no different to you than the work of Satan
Have you EVER read / told / taken your children to see movies and / or stage plays , stories that contained witches, wizards, fairies, and magic ? If you jave, then your posts to others are hyocritical.
NO ,not after being saved..it might surprise you but there are many things that entertain and amuse out there that do not honor Satan...
WHy do I post on these threads ? To countermand the lies and misinformation spread by others; that's why. We don't need any more " witch trials " in this country. Innocent people were murdered, because some people had their own agendas . Bearing false witness, in case you have forgotten, is breaking one of the 10 Commandments, and that is exactly what many do on these threads.
NO you love Harry Potter..it meets a need you have for the magical..this is America..enjoy it..but please do not represent yourself as a Born again believer..
You know, I guess a post like yours explains exactly why I responded to the Harry Potter threads. I can honestly say that I agree with you.
It DOES turn off people to see such harsh judgemental attitudes from people who profess to speak for who I think is an all knowing, loving, forgiving God.
For some reason they think they have the "right" to judge. I do think Jesus had the right,.. and I think of course that God does. But these people who think they have the priviledges that God gave Jesus,.. or that God himself have,..have sadly mistaken the words of the Bible. God makes no mistake with his words. He says that those who judge will not only be judged as they judge others.. but judged HARSH(er), HARDER than they judge!!
I think God is a God of Compassion, Love, and even Humor. He had the best "imagination" imaginable,.. he imagined and "made" this entire Universe.
I happen to think your words speak volumes. The only thing I would ask (and I ask with all my heart), is that you not hold all Christians accountable for the radical few. I also think your right, the "majority" of Christians do NOT think like these people!!!!
See, I don't think "we" should let "them" force all of us to change our name from "Christians".. they should change theirs to "radical opinionated scarry believers of a faith that doesn't represent me"..... what do ya think? :o)
Sadly, I do totally understand what you said. I know a lot of people feel the same way. Which is/was my point by responding to this thread a others like it from "alleged" Christians ( I say "alleged" because I personally don't feel it represents the way I feel or the majority of Christians either!!).
Btw,..nothing wrong with D & D. I remember what you mentioned regarding the people saying it was evil. "The radicals who don't think like me" tried to pounce on that one too. But I played it with my kids..and it was harmless. Good clean fun!!
You sound to me like one who "gets it" but is still searching somewhat. I think you're on the right track. Your faith is going to be stronger than most,.. because of the trials you have gone through.
I also think like you that so many people "HAVE" been chased away from Christianity by those "judgemental radical" few.
Please,.. I beg you to not let them win. Sometimes I wonder if that type of attitude isn't a wolf in sheeps clothing, if it isn't a source of great evil (under the guise of Christianity). Those who speak like they are the only believers, who actually chase away and repel people from the beauty of Christ, who end up doing more harm than good surely cannot be working for the one true God. I think they are misled and unknowingly are a pawn of evil. Because ANYTHING that takes people further away from the Lord can't be good.
Just MHO
Take care friend. Mary Ann
You like the god of your creation...and that is your right. It is just that some of us think God made man in His image..you just happen to think you need to make god in yours..
This is America..go for it!
This just seemed to fit..
. Condoning sin can not lead anyone to the Holy God of scripture. Jesus said to His friend "Get thee behind me Satan"..Sin needs to be called sin...what we do need to remember is God sent his Son to die for those that repent and respond to the gospel
The unsaved can not hear or understand the implications of HP..they are not spiriually able.But it is wrong for us to pretend that it in any ways honors the God of Creation..
Are you now denying that you told another poster that you bet she hadn't read the Bible to her children ? Are you also denying, like Peter, that you have repeatedly, and on many HP threads condemned outright, and implied that your fellow FREEPERS are not " good " Christians ? I wouldn't do that, if I were you, dear.
You said:
No I do not deny that I have frequently asked people that say they are Christians where their heart is..Did that poster answer me..I will bet not...the reason? Well you figure it out :>) Have you spent as much time reading the word of God with your children as you have HP?
Well RNMomof7... I'm that person!!! And had you READ MY REPONSE TO YOU YOU WOULD SEE THAT "YES" I did answer you. But it is blatantly obvious now that you DON'T READ what people post. WHY?? Because your radical, judgemental, and very full of yourself in my humble opinion.
You are constantly saying "people spend more time discussing this topic"..then YOUR in every thread. Your the "holier than thou" type. IF YOU READ WHAT OTHERS WROTE,.. instead of acting so pious.. maybe you'd learn something,.. maybe then when you really understood how to represent such an AWESOME GOD you could reach a few people. YOUR MIND IS CLOSED. So I doubt (I don't give up hope but I do doubt at this time) that you will open your eyes and heart and learn how to bring others to Christ. But I assure you ... you won't win any hearts this way.
I will pray for YOU and others like you, because like I just said to one poster,..people like you could actually be a pawn of evil, because people like you chase more people away from God in one day, than an army of the Taliban could do in a year or many years!!
Your a bully under the guise of Christianity. Shame on you.. I will pray harder tonight for you, than any others on this thread. Leave NoPardons alone. Leave all of us who dare to disagree with you alone. I feel nothing,.. NOTHING but hypocritical judgmental hateful feelings coming from you. In the words of an old hippie saying I once heard "Wheres the love man?".....
Now,. I KNOW from watching you respond to people for the last couple days that you won't read or tried to understand anything I said in this post, any more than you READ or TRIED TO UNDERSTAND anything I said in my last posts. You didn't even read my response where I DID SAY HOW I READ THE BIBLE AND IN FACT WHICH ONES, TO MY CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN.
*******TO ALL.. CLOSED MIND ALERT******** DON'T WASTE YOUR TIME TRYING TO TALK TO RNMOMOF7. She already knows it all.. Sad .. really sad.
You'd think they'd learn something from all the secular inhumanists bitching about where they can and cannot put crosses and memorial creches.
Actually I have asked that question many many times..not just to you..and not just on this thread..
I think the bible has gone through many translations, and many meanings were misguided, or lost. For example...
"The Meek shall inherit the earth..." leads most people to believe that the quiet, shy types will prosper, which is not what it is saying. "Meek", in this case, means "learned", which makes a lot more sense.
"Turn the other cheek" is another misinterpreted one. This does NOT mean let yourself get beat up again because the bible says so. To get hit with the back of the hand was a terrible insult, much more than getting hit with the palm of the hand. It was not only a physical violation, but essentially a very degrading putdown to boot (similar to insinuating the person you are slapping is about equal to a dog). When the bible says, "turn the other cheek", the idea was to offer the other cheek instead, which would force the person to slap you with their palm, which, as odd as it sounds, is much better than the former.
So, as you can see, taking the bible word for word in English many times leads to misinterpretation.
I have read the Bible, cover to cover 5 times. I have read many passages more often than that. I have read chidren's Bible stories, AND the Bible to my daughter, as she was growing up, and we ALWAYS sang a hymn ( sometimes more than one ) and prayed, after I read her a bedtime story. My mother died when my kiddo was VERY tiny, yet we prayed for her daily and GOD's word helped us live through my mother's illness and death. Afterwards, we prayed that she is with GOD, and ay peace. From a VERY young age,it was my daughter who had to say Grace, for the major holiday meals. This meant that she had to not only understand what she was saying,but had to feel it as well.
Just quoting scripture, doesn't mean that one understands it ( a parrot can do that, but does the grace of GOD engulf the parrot, who repeats, unthinkingly, HIS words ? ) , nor that that person lives according to HIS laws and will. Look at what those who held the witch trials ( there were many. many more here, than just in Salem , Mass. ! ) here , did in HIS name. The same thing is being done to the HP series and movie AND to the author. As I have repeatedly said, bearing false witness is breaking one of GOD's own Commandments. This is what riles me, to a great extent.
Anyone who has read, or read chidren a vast variety of excellent litterature ( which the HP books aren't. LOL ) will have come across wizards ( both bad and good ) , witches ( ditto ) , fairies ( same thing ) , and magic . It's called FANTASY ! Reading stimulates the imagination; something that has been driven out of so many children, for the past 35 years, or so, and that is why some children grow up NOT being able to remove fantasy from reality now. LOok at what happened at Columbine ! Children watch violent movies, play violent video games, watch wrestling on T.V. and some take all of that into reality. Reading a book makes you do your own imagining. When the book is closed, the usually return to reality. I say usually, because some people actually do thing that fictional books, and one in particular ( and it certainly is NOT anything written by Miss Rowling ! ), is a blueprint for politics / life here. That is just silly.
I want to know how many children, or the anti-Harry posters themselves, who after reading one , or the entire series of TARZAN books went to Africa and lived amongst the great Chimps. I also want to know how many people, after seeing or reading Shakespear's " A MIDSUMMER'S NIGHT DREAM " tried to get PUCK to put a love position, in their beloved's eyes; or even believed that this could be true. Then, I want a poll done, to see if EVERYONE , or even five people,believe that the only way, that Arizona beat my beloved Yankees, in the World Series, is because, a la the stage play/ musical, and movie , the Devil and one of his demons made the Yankees lose.
Yes, outside of your kind words about and for me, I do agree with your entire post. We are on the same page, as far as this is concerbed ; probably on a lot of other topics to, my dear. : - )
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