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To: bluefish
"If you or somebody else could demonstrate for me how these measures will stop terrorism and that they won't be used for a single political purpose ever, I would feel better about it."

Simply put, I can't. That would be impossible for me to do, not to mention foolish. There is no doubt that this legislation.........as any legislation..........can be abused and probably will be by some a**hole somewhere, sometime.

"Unfortunately, it is not possible to prove a future event."

This is also true. It's also why we, as citizens who, ourselves, are sworn to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States have to stay vigilant as all hell during these times..............and even more so when it suddenly becomes generally accepted that "the war on terrorism" is won / over (which will never be a specific date like VE or VJ Day; it'll be a gradual realization; a general understanding of the world situation; perceived changes in mindsets in those countries that have traditionally supported terrorism, etc.).

If you seek assurances that laws / legislation such as the "Patriots Act" (I readily admit to hating that name) cannot be abused, you've come to the wrong guy. If you ask me if I think that many / most of its provisions are necessary during time of war, I'll say "Yes; absolutely." If you ask, in the next breath, whether or not we need to remain especially vigilant as citizens and activists that these same pieces of wartime legislation aren't turned against law-abiding, freedom-loving citizens........I'll say "You're damned RIGHT."

War does that. It makes us accept things, do things that we otherwise would not in an effort to ensure our Country's safety, the safety of our military personnel, and the continued existence of the American Ideal. It wasn't fun in WWI nor WWII nor Korea nor Vietnam nor even Desert Storm...........it sure as hell isn't fun now.

My point is simple: We must do what we must do to rid our country of the vermin that undoubtedly wander our highways and inhabit our apartment complexes as of this writing. We must also be certain that we hold those who are so tasked accountable...........now, in one year, in three years, in eight years.

I'll also add that I appreciate the wholly different tone of this conversation.

96 posted on 11/23/2001 7:45:42 PM PST by RightOnline
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To: RightOnline
..."This is also true. It's also why we, as citizens who, ourselves, are sworn to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States have to stay vigilant as all hell during these times..............and even more so when it suddenly becomes generally accepted that "the war on terrorism" is won / over (which will never be a specific date like VE or VJ Day; it'll be a gradual realization; a general understanding of the world situation; perceived changes in mindsets in those countries that have traditionally supported terrorism, etc.)"....

This is probably the most scary thus far of what's been written on this thread.....as though the average Amerikan is going to ' stay vigilant' for a long stretch of years....after the hoopla of the current bombing exercise, it will be back to the arena to watch sports, Suicide, Marry a Millionaire, or whatever......and over these years, the FBI/CIA/DOD/NSA/Fadderland Security will all be coming back again and again 'needing' more of this or that....while the sheeple are being lulled to sleep with assurances that 'we're still striking at terrorists--remember we said it would be a long time, yada yada yada. And with a definite or set date or time period not set, suddenly, we have another generation underfoot that has never lived under anything less than a 'state of war', much like Afghanis under 23 years of age!!!

If you've never had steak (various freedoms), why would you insist on eating one?

125 posted on 11/23/2001 9:07:13 PM PST by Rowdee
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