All of the comments I have made on this thread are about the Federal Patriot Act....NOT about wild scenarios that people make up and say what if the government did this....??? Your comments above are a prime example....if you can show me any language in the Patriot Act that allows the behavior in your hypothetical....then I will respond. Otherwise, your made up example has no value in this discussion.
Let me try to give you an example for comparison. Let us say we were discussing the right of a parent to discipline their child without government interference. Let us say my position was that the parents should be allowed to discipline the child. And then you ask well, what if they tie the child up and torture the child and then they kill the child and then they bury the child in the backyard...is that okay? Do you still believe parents can discipline the child? Obviously torture and murder are not within the realm of discipline considered appropriate by most parents. Your example is just as extreme. There is NOTHING in the Patriot Act about going into your house and doing ANYTHING so your example does not apply in this discussion.
You may also be interested in taking note of the provision that turns all businesses into undercover agents of the government. It provides no provision for the accused to confront the accuser. Piss off a clerk at the local furniture store and wind up on a list of suspects. You have right to know who accused you and no right to know you are now a suspect person.
This is bad law. This is police state crap that has no place in a republic.
SEC. 213. AUTHORITY FOR DELAYING NOTICE OF THE EXECUTION OF A WARRANT.
Section 3103a of title 18, United States Code, is amended--
(1) by inserting `(a) IN GENERAL- ' before `In addition'; and
(2) by adding at the end the following:
`(b) DELAY- With respect to the issuance of any warrant or court order under this section, or any other rule of law, to search for and seize any property or material that constitutes evidence of a criminal offense in violation of the laws of the United States, any notice required, or that may be required, to be given may be delayed if--
`(1) the court finds reasonable cause to believe that providing immediate notification of the execution of the warrant may have an adverse result (as defined in section 2705);
`(2) the warrant prohibits the seizure of any tangible property, any wire or electronic communication (as defined in section 2510), or, except as expressly provided in chapter 121, any stored wire or electronic information, except where the court finds reasonable necessity for the seizure; and
`(3) the warrant provides for the giving of such notice within a reasonable period of its execution, which period may thereafter be extended by the court for good cause shown.'.
"All of the comments I have made on this thread are about the Federal Patriot Act....
NOT about wild scenarios that people make up and say what if the government did this....???
Your comments above are a prime example....
if you can show me any language in the Patriot Act that allows the behavior in your hypothetical....
then I will respond.
Otherwise, your made up example has no value in this discussion."
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Lawyer, are you telling me that you have never used a hypothetical argument in court? Jesus himself used hypothetical arguments that had no direct bearing on the question being addressed, but still served to provide understanding of the issue under discussion.
You, lawyer, are passing yourself off as an authority on the Constitution. You have not convinced me that you could pass a high school reading comprehension test. You ignore the context of my replies.
"...Let me try to give you an example for comparison.
Let us say we were discussing the right of a parent to discipline their child without government interference. Let us say my position was that the parents should be allowed to discipline the child. And then you ask well, what if they tie the child up and torture the child and then they kill the child and then they bury the child in the backyard...is that okay? Do you still believe parents can discipline the child? Obviously torture and murder are not within the realm of discipline considered appropriate by most parents. Your example is just as extreme. There is NOTHING in the Patriot Act about going into your house and doing ANYTHING so your example does not apply in this discussion.
# 361 by JD86
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What?!
What possible relevance does an example of punishing a child
have in a discussion of the relationship
between the 4th Amendment and the un-Constitutional "Patriot Act?"
Is it possible that there is a place for parables in this discussion?
When Castro took power in Cuba in 1960, he randomly put people in charge of their neighborhoods to report goings-on, etc. The people, who were anti-communist, thought this will be a snap as I just won't report anything. Castro then "created" incidents within the various neighborhoods to see who would report and who wouldn't. Guess what happened to those who didn't report? Suddenly, EVERYONE was reporting every little detail about what was happening in his/her respective neighborhoods.
We all know that the guvmint sends people out to catch landlords who won't rent to certain ethnicities, etc. Who is to say that the guvmint won't send agents to go to various retailers (big and small) with $10,000 to see whether guy complies with the reporting regulations? How about sending out IRS Agents to check as to whether they comply or not? The Patriot Bill has all the ear-marks of Big Brother and Fidel Castro.
miss print
PS Does anyone know whether the Patriot bill includes the following four little words in it: "and for other purposes?" If so, then the guvmint can write anything into the bill they want - after it has been passed - because it decides what the other purposes are AT A LATER DATE.