November 21, 2001
THE DETAINEES
Posted on 11/21/2001 6:27:54 AM PST by RCW2001
November 21, 2001
THE DETAINEES
mong the more than 1,100 people the government has detained since Sept. 11 are dozens of young Israeli Jews who came to the United States in recent months and took jobs selling trinkets at shopping malls throughout the country.
Charged with working without proper papers, some have been kept in detention by the Immigration and Naturalization Service for nearly a month. In some cases, the immigration service has invoked special post- Sept. 11 laws to keep the Israelis in jail but presented no evidence of a link to the terrorism investigation.
"We think there are about 50 in detention now, in San Diego, Houston, Kansas City, St. Louis and Cleveland, and there are some who have been released," said Ido Aharoni, a spokesman for the Israeli consulate in New York. "It's not easy to get an exact count. They may be embarrassed that they were working illegally, and we only find out when their mothers call, because they haven't been in touch, and we check and find them in jail."
Normally, working without papers is treated as a minor offense, for which foreigners are not detained.
While both the detainees and their lawyers say they are baffled by the detentions, some of those familiar with the cases said they believed the impetus was the interest of law enforcement officials in companies that offer young Israelis ? and perhaps others in the Middle East ? help in coming to, and working in, the United States.
"It's hard to understand," said Suzanne Brown, a St. Louis lawyer representing 5 of the 10 Israelis detained there. "Just today, I talked with the I.N.S. officer in charge of the St. Louis office, who said he doesn't know who is conducting the investigation of the Israelis. And what are they investigating? I don't know."
In Ohio, on Oct. 31, the immigration service detained nine men and two women, all of whom had valid passports and tourist visas. Nine of the 11 were released on bond on Friday, but two remain in the Medina County jail, outside of Cleveland. The next hearing for the Israelis ? all in their early 20's and recently finished with their Israeli army service ? is scheduled for Nov. 27, in Cleveland.
"It doesn't make sense that they held any of these kids as long as they did, and we don't know of any reason why they're still holding two," said David Leopold, the Cleveland lawyer representing them. "You hear there's more than 1,000 detainees, and if these cases are any example, you have to wonder if they're just locking people up to make it look like they're getting somewhere on their investigation."
Dan Nelson, a spokesman for the Justice Department, said that he was unaware of the Israeli detainees, but that generally, since Sept. 11, there has been greater scrutiny of those who violate immigration laws.
"We are taking every step we can to prevent future terrorist attacks," Mr. Nelson said. "We are conducting the largest investigation in U.S. history, and we are leaving no stone unturned."
In New York, immigration officials began deporting five young Israeli moving men who have been in federal custody since Sept. 11. Two of the deportees, Oded Ellner and Omer Gavriel Marmari, landed in Tel Aviv yesterday. The others, Paul Kurzberg and his brother Sivan, and Yaron Shmuel, were expected to fly to Israel today.
The five aroused attention in New Jersey after people noticed them going to unusual lengths to photograph the World Trade Center ruins and making light of the situation. One photograph developed by the F.B.I. showed Sivan Kurzberg holding a lighted lighter in the foreground, with the smoldering wreckage in the background, said Steven Noah Gordon, a lawyer for the five.
As objectionable as their behavior may be, Mr. Gordon said of their long incarceration, "It's not a crime and they were being treated as if it was."
The five were asked to take polygraph tests before being allowed to leave. But Paul Kurzberg refused on principle to divulge much about his role in the Israeli army or subsequently working for people who may have had ties to Israeli intelligence, Mr. Gordon said. His client had trouble with one seven-hour polygraph test administered last week, but did better on a second try.
Mr. Kurzberg's lawyer said it was his understanding that Attorney General John Ashcroft had to sign off on his release.
In the Ohio cases, the immigration service said at a hearing last week that the 11 Israelis were "special" nonterrorist cases. But Judge Elizabeth Hacker, the immigration judge conducting the hearing, questioned the agency's case for keeping the Israelis in jail.
"Although the service alleges that these cases are `special,' it has failed to present any credible evidence of the basis for this finding," Judge Hacker said in a bond memorandum. "Indeed, the service has failed to submit any evidence of terrorist activity or of a threat to the national security. There is no evidence of the risk of harm to the community."
Russell Bergeron, a spokesman for the immigration service, said decisions on when to refuse bond were made case by case.
When Judge Hacker set bond, the government filed an emergency appeal, which, under procedures adopted last month, automatically allows the government extra time to detain people.
At the hearing, the government lawyers said the Israelis were the subject of a criminal investigation by the F.B.I. of an individual or company that promised living and travel expenses in return for selling at shopping-mall pushcarts. The government says the Ohio detainees worked for Quality Sales Inc., a Florida concern.
Tom Dean, the lawyer representing Quality Sales, declined to provide information about the company or its principals, but he said the company was cooperating with federal authorities to resolve "any concern about possible criminal conduct."
The F.B.I. refused to comment on its dealings with Quality Sales or other such companies.
Some of those familiar with the cases said such companies may provide an open channel for terrorists to enter the country without background checks.
The Israelis who were detained in Ohio lived in three apartments in Findlay, Ohio, south of Toledo, and worked in several different malls.
"When they came Oct. 31, the immigration agents knocked on the door, and waked us from sleep," said Ori Ben-Tur, one of the Ohio detainees who was released on Friday. "When we asked why they arrest us, they said they suspect we work in illegal jobs. They told us we could probably come back to our apartment the same day, or the day after."
When the detention dragged on, he said, the Israelis became increasingly worried, and, after several days in detention, arranged legal representation by Mr. Leopold.
Mr. Ben-Tur said he and the others had been interrogated separately.
"Some of the questions weren't so nice for an Israeli, who has served in the army, and fought against terrorism," he said. "I asked them, do they know what Israel thinks of the Arab countries, do they know Israel thinks of America as a big, big friend?"
Mr. Ben-Tur, and his lawyer, said they had no idea why he and most of the others had been released, while two, Oren Behr and Yaniv Hani, were still being detained.
You're supposed to believe the following: after it's destruction by the Romans, the Temple Mount, had no significance (just a vacant lot). Along comes this religion from Arabia and of all places in the world they choose to build on that particular spot (where Mohammed and his flying horse...).
When they happened to be building this mosque on this particular "vacant lot" nobody asked why there is this Wall just there by this "vacant lot" where all the Jews are always praying.
It's easy to believe the Arab claims to everything. All you need is a lobotomy....and being really really drunk. Neither alone is sufficient.
Cyrus the king was called messiah too. So what is your point?
Hadrian was a vicious persecutor of both Christians and Jews, as were all roman emperors up till Constantine. The joke in the end is on the Romans empire since the gospel of love brought it to its knees in the end (according to E. Gibbon). For its first 300 years, Christianity was spread like wildfire by merely sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ - love. On the other hand, Islam was spread violently by the sword. See the difference?
Abraham took another wife, whose name was Keturah." (Gen 25:1)
"The sons born to Keturah, Abraham's concubine: Zimran, Jokshan, Medan, Midian, Ishbak and Shuah. The sons of Jokshan: Sheba and Dedan." (1 Chron 1:32)
Selective when it comes to reading Scripture, aren't you? Read the next line:
"But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, whom Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year." (Genesis 17:21).
Now the real Patria comes out! Before I answer your point about Abraham, answer me this: What is the definition of a "contradiction"? Look it up, then re-examine your alleged "conradiction" in light of the definition. Then come back if you still think you have a point.
You should have remembered this contradiction as well:
And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy eyes because of the lad [Ishmael], and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah may say unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
And also of the son of the bond-woman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.(Genesis 21:12-13)
And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac.
But unto the sons of the concubines that Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts; and he sent them away from Isaac his son, while he was yet living, eastward, unto the east country. (Genesis 25:5-6)
There are the genealogies of other Arab tribes, including the Moabites and Ammonites from across the Jordan (Genesis 19:36-37), the Edomites (Genesis 36:1-43), Midian, Sheba, Dedan in Arabia (Genesis 25:1-6).
These tribes intermarried and made alliances in a vast area from present day Iraq to Egypt, and Saudi Arabia.
It was Muhammad (c.570-632) who forged them into one Arab people, together with cousins descended from Joktan (Genesis 10:26-31).
Jews and Arabs are very close Shemitic cousins, and their common language is Hamitic.
Where do you think the Arabs came from and how do you think that their ancient history revolves around a forgotten monothesism that included the memory of the Patriarchs?
Why is it that their DNA is like the DNA of the Sephardic Jews?
Why is that a chimp's DNA is 97% similar to humans? Does that prove evolution is true? nope. It merely proves all DNA comes from the same manufacturer. :)
They are all semitics, but there were other semitic peoples in arabia at the time of Abraham. Yes, they all mixed - this makes it even harder to know the geneology, doesn't it? Ask any arab or muslim to show you his geneology going back to Ishmael. They can't.
You may want to read this.
Personally, I found this sentence particularly interesting.
Surprisingly, the study shows a closer genetic affinity by Jews to the non-Jewish, non-Arab populations in the northern part of the Middle East than to Arabs
Even better.
huh? "They" don't have any effect on me one way or the other.
The folks in the article were here illegally - jail 'em for a while then deport them. Serves 'em right.
The biggest problem are those who hold dual citizenship. They should be detained, their American citizenship stripped from them, their assets confiscated and then put on a one way trip out of the US.
Let me guess. You're a real American who loves the Constitution of the United States.
Well...veronica...it's clear you are quite predjudiced.
You may want to read this.
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The article is entitled "Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe".
In the first place the Jews are not a race. One is Jewish if one practices Judaism. Hebrews in the bible practiced Judaism therefore they were called Jews. People of any race can practice Judaism and are called Jews or Jewish. One can convert to Judaism and become a Jew. Like one can convert to Christianity and is called a Christian. The Diaspora preserved the Jewish religion but not the Hebrew race. See also:
Are Jews a Nation or a Religion?
So we see that Jews cannot be linked genetically to anything because the term is misused in the first place.
"One of the unique aspects of Judaism is its rejection of Judaism as a biological entity, an inherited spiritual DNA, racial or ethnic. The point is that being a Jew is not a matter of genes and chromosomes. To the contrary, Judaism is the first religion to recognize the "ger", the stranger who chooses to identify himself with Judaism. Judaism is not rooted in race or clan or in a genetic matter but a religious tradition of choice." (Rabbi Harold Schulweis)
After the destruction of Jerusalem the nation of Israel after the flesh was scattered throughout the earth, and lost all tribal relations. This scattering was made immutable due to the fact that all tribal genealogical records were destroyed with the Second Temple in A.D. 70.
Secondly, genetic research is an issue of wide proportions. In fact much of the research says Jews and Arabs are genetic brothers. See:
Jews share 4,000-year genetic link with Arabs
Jews Are The Genetic Brothers Of Palestinians, Syrians, And Lebanese
Personally I think all the genetic research is highly speculative. But even if all the research out there were true...it doesn't doesn't have one thing to do with Israel as a nation. There are millions of Jews (genetics or no) who do not even live in Israel and many are converts. The promises were made to a people who are long since gone. Abraham was to be a father to "many" nations...if one is to hold to bible teaching. This idea that Israel is still a chosen people or nation is not biblical. It's a result of dispensationlist teaching which only reared its head in the 1800's and really caught on fire in the last few decades (mainly coming out of the Dallas Baptist Theological Seminary).
I guess the whole world was deceived until this teaching.[/sarcasm] P.S. Been there done that.
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