Posted on 11/19/2001 12:28:10 PM PST by Texican72
Islam is a "peaceful religion," President George W. Bush has assured the American public on several occasions since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C.
Not so, say four Baptist experts on world religions, who characterize Islam as drawing from both violent and non-violent streams.
Bush's assertion that Islam is "peaceful" is "ridiculous," said James Chancellor, professor of missions at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky., and an authority on numerous world religions.
"He's saying it for two reasons," Chancellor said. "He's saying it so the United States will not be seen as attacking Muslims. He's also saying it to prevent attacks on Muslims."
While religions in the Western world have turned away from the normative use of violence to accomplish their goals, much of the Islamic world has not made that transition, Chancellor explained. Muhammad, who Muslims believe was given the final word of Allah, was a warrior; therefore, Muslims can build a case for using violence to accomplish their objectives.
That does not mean all Muslims are violent people, Chancellor emphasized. "They are like everyone else. They want to raise a family. Muslims are not more violent than Westerners, but the use of violence comes more easily to Muslims."
Many devout Muslims are shocked that one of their own could commit the atrocious acts attributed to Osama bin Laden and his followers in the al Qaeda terrorist network, Chancellor said.
That impression was echoed by Samuel Shahid, professor of missions at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth and director of the seminary's Muslim studies program.
"Most Muslims are people who want to live in peace," Shahid said. "There are some fanatic leaders inside them who play on the religion and their religious emotions to promote violence."
Much like Christianity in the eyes of some outsiders, Islam presents a conundrum for outsiders because its scriptures can be interpreted differently to support actions on both sides of a conflict, Shahid said.
"There are many verses in the Koran that talk about peace, and a lot of verses talk about violence," he said. "It depends on the people. Some like to quote from the verses that emphasize peace and some from the verses on violence."
Chancellor believes whether or not a Muslim is violent depends on the person. But Keith Parks, a veteran Baptist missions leader and former missionary to Indonesia, believes Muslim actions vary according to the amount of power they wield in a society. Where Muslims have political and social power, they are aggressive and controlling, Parks said. But when they are not in power, they present themselves as peaceful.
"They present themselves in the States as very peaceful, and the Koran has passages you can emphasize, but it also has passages that speak of converting infidels and ridding their country of infidels," Parks said. "They teach the jihad is a physical conflict, and if you die trying to destroy the infidels you are granted direct access to paradise. But there are many Muslims who would disagree."
Indeed, the entire subject of Islamic jihad is often misunderstood, added John Jonsson, a religion professor at Baylor University in Waco and an authority on world religions.
"We call it holy war. They call it pursuit of justice," he explained.
Although a majority of Muslims do not condone terrorist acts, a large percentage would support the ultimate goals terrorists seek to accomplish against the Western world, Chancellor said. They want at least neutrality from the West in dealings with Israel, and they want the United States to take its military out of Saudi Arabia. For Muslims, having U.S. troops in Saudi Arabia is equivalent to how Roman Catholics would perceive the placement of Muslim troops in the Vatican, Chancellor said.
In the current world situation, it is virtually impossible to separate Islam as a religion from Islam as a political system, added Parks.
"You cannot separate the religion from the government or society," he said. "It is a way of life. There is no idea of separation of church and state."
Chancellor agreed: "Muslims have not separated those worlds. It is consistent to achieve religious goals through politics."
This is confirmed by Terry Muck, author of a soon-to-be-published book called "The Pocket Guide to America's Religions."
"In a sense, the Islamic world is out of step with the current political trend of moving toward pluralistic democracies," Muck writes. "These democracies, fashioned largely after the United States model, have as one of their key characteristics the separation of church and state. This is not a congenial model for Muslim countries, where the ideal is not separation of church and state but the identification of the two under a single Muslim-dominated leadership structure."
In the Muslim world, Muck notes, "President Bush and Pope John Paul would be the same person."
For Muslims, this understanding has its roots in the role played by Muhammad himself, who was both a religious leader and political leader, Muck adds. "By incarnating both roles in his singular leadership style, Muhammad managed to unite-- or set the stage for his immediate followers to unite--much of the most politically fractious geographies on earth, the Middle East."
Because of the intertwining of religious and political leadership in the Muslim world, Islam's religious teaching about jihad often takes on political ramifications, Muck explains.
Muslims have "a theological mandate to spread the influence of their religion worldwide," he notes. "This practice is included in a wider mandate to fully realize the injunctions of the Koran called jihad. Because Muslims do not have a strict separation between the theological and the political spheres, this missionary mandate is often indistinguishable from the political aims of Islamic governments."
With additional reporting by Managing Editor Mark Wingfield
Hammer. Nail. Head.
This silly analogy falls apart rather easily. There are thousands of illegal Muslim immigrants throughout Italy, some of whom are al-Qaeda members actively working to destroy Christianity. If there were a similar influx of Christians into Saudi Arabia, we'd never hear the end of it.
The truth is, Islam always demands a double standard in its treatment, and is willing to kick and scream and cry until it gets it.
What a stupid statement this is. The Vatican is a small town. US troops are posted hundreds of miles away from Mecca and Medina in some god-awful desolate part of the desert, protecting holy muslim sites from an atheist regime in Baghdad. Meanwhile, Islamic troops are much closer to the Vatican, in Albania, Kosovo and other parts of the Balkans, not to mention the ones that Italy has admitted through immigration policies. These people would enter the Vatican, and topple its pillars or turn its cathedral into a mosque, in a heartbeat if they could. We, on the other, could waltz into Mecca and Medina in a heartbeat and do whatever we liked if we wanted to, but we don't.
If history shows us anything, it is that the Pope and the Vatican will position themselves regarding this issue in the place they believe to be the most politically advantageous to them at the moment.
Case in point: All the rule changes that came out of "Vatican II."
I happen to agree with him.
Dubya: Islam is a religion of peace (nudge, nudge, wink, wink)
The point being to buy a little time. Not necessarily a bad thing.
When they're less than 5% of the population, they're peaceful (US). When they're 5-12% of the population, they begin gang raping white Christian girls (France, Australia, Denmark) and excusing it on the grounds that all nonmuslim women are by definition whores anyway, as well as demanding the host country allow them to set up Shariya courts which will use amputations and death as punishment (Denmark). This even though the DP and mutilations are forbidden under Danish, French, and EU law. And when they reach 40% or more of the population, they go door to door forcing nonmuslims to convert on pain of death, mutilating entire villages' women with one razor (the Moluccas), enslaving nonmuslims (Sudan, other parts of Africa), etc.
In no Muslim country (except Turkey) do nonmuslims have a status above third class citizen . Dhimmitude is lliterally the status of state slave. And in no Muslim country (except Turkey) do the Muslim peoples themselves possess anything like what we would consider full ciivil rights.
Details at 11:00...
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