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My friend, it's almost pointless trying to use rational debate or logic with most(not all) devout theists, especially theists of the Middle Eastern stripe. Anyone who's bothered to study more than Biblical apologetics(and i've read some of that too) would know that the "canon" has been edited, some books that were legitimately a part of the religious tradition were excised, others like Daniel that were complete works of fiction were included. Prophecies have been interpolated, historical works like those by Josephus have been edited to support their view, and great skeptic works like Celsus have been destroyed.

While I have great admiration and respect for the truly moral AND rational religionist friends here on FR, I know that there runs through this forum a thread of benighted souls who still subscribe to the ancient God-King concept and believe that an eternal, loving being would condemn anyone(short of Stalin-types) to an eternity of torture. The Bible is full of sadism, fitting for a savage ancient culture. The stories there find their origin in much older myths that were "borrowed" from surrounding civilizations.

Ever find it odd that the great civilizations of the early world were so evil, as described in the Bible, but the culture and figures that belong to the founders of Judaism are so great and moral(even when they kill the husbands of women they want to have sex with..David, anyone?)

It's almost pointless because however much my militancy has faded, I sometimes get angry, because I hear people who have no idea about the real foundations of our civilization, nor of the moral underpinnings. Last time I checked Jesus never really spoke out against slavery. Nor did he present proof of his identity by something as simple as a revolutionary advance in knowledge. He said nothing that Hillel or Buddha or many others didn't already say.

Heck, for all the talk of Satan, he never kills anyone in the Bible. It's "God" that kills millions, if I recall correctly.

You've done non-Christians and Christians alike a dis-service. You read the Bible as a work of fiction (if you read it at all) and therefore you view it as a work of fiction and now condemn it as a work of fiction. It's not a work of fiction and to treat it as such is pitiful. The Bible is a history and textbook. The life of Jesus, for example, has been corroborated in the records of hostile witnesses as well as in the New Testament. Once you give the Bible proper respect and read it as it was intended to be read, you might learn something from it and your life might be changed. Until then, you won't get any more out of the Bible than you would watching HBO on TV. But just because you choose to be incapable of learning from it, does not mean that it isn't there to be learned from, and that all others choose to be as incapable as you do.

Ever find it odd that the great civilizations of the early world were so evil, as described in the Bible, but the culture and figures that belong to the founders of Judaism are so great and moral(even when they kill the husbands of women they want to have sex with..David, anyone?)

Correction: David was not looked upon by God as so great and moral at all times. He committed adultery with Bathsheeba, then had her husband killed by putting him on the front lines in battle. For this, God had his son, borne by Bathsheeba, die. David repented and God forgave him. 'Tis why that, and other misdeeds of leaders, were left in the Old Testament for everyone to read (nothing to hide). David was a man, learning from mistakes, doing things wrong, as we all do. Despite David's flaws, God looked at David's heart and saw that David truly wanted to do right and good and that David truly did love God. How thankful I am that God doesn't condemn me to hell because I cannot live up to the perfection which is only found in Christ Jesus.

I agree with what you have written. I have searched for a consistent morality in the Bible and the only one that I can see is might makes right. The ten commandments are nothing special - every known civilisation had something similar (you can't be a civilisation by allowing murder and theft to happen all the time). I lost my faith through trying the impossible - reconciling a good God with hell. And it is impossible.