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MORON ALERT: FOGLEMAN URGERS LOWER STANDARDS FOR MEMPHIS CITY SCHOOLS
The Commercial Appeal aka Comic Appeal ^ | 11/16/01 | Aimee Edmondson

Posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:04 PM PST by GailA

Fogelman urges lower standard for city schools

By Aimee Edmondson edmondson@gomemphis.com

State school board member Avron Fogelman of Memphis said Thursday he will propose that the board set up lower performance standards for Memphis schools than the rest of Tennessee.

He believes you just can't compare an urban district plagued with poverty to other school districts in the state.

After seeing the latest round of school report cards released by the state this week, Fogelman predicted that up to 70 percent of students will not graduate because they will fail the tougher Gateway tests required for graduation starting this year.

He wants to make it easier for students to pass that test.

"It's like a runaway freight train that will hit us in Memphis if somebody doesn't call time out," Fogelman said. "As it's going now, they're not going to have a prayer."

Fogelman said he'll make a motion at the next state Board of Education meeting Feb. 1 to create a separate set of requirements.

Currently the state's performance standard for schools is the 50th national percentile on achievement tests. That means that students should perform as well or better than 50 percent of students across the nation.

Fogelman wants Memphis's standard to be the 40th percentile. Right now, a 40 is an F on the state report card.

Fogelman knows he faces an uphill battle in persuading his colleagues on the state board to buy into his plan.

He brought up the idea briefly in September after the state identified its low-performing schools in jeopardy of a state takeover. Two thirds of those, 64, are in Memphis.

At the time, board members and education commissioner Faye Taylor argued against a separate set of standards for the state's largest city.

Cherrie Holden is the other local member of the state board of education.

"I don't understand how we can set a separate standard and expect all children to achieve the same," Holden said. "Other districts will say, 'If they get a break, we all should get a break.' "

However, Memphis Supt. Johnnie B. Watson likes Fogelman's idea. "I'm all for accountability," Watson said. "But the time has come that we need to stop letting half-baked testing determine what we teach and how we teach. It's controlling the school system."

Watson wants to see a scale created that takes poverty into account when looking at a school's test score data. So it wouldn't just be for Memphis. If other districts are this poor, they have the same weighted scale, he pointed out.

About 70 percent of Memphis students qualify for free or reduced-priced meals, a common indicator of poverty - and student achievement.

Only 13 percent of students in Shelby County Schools do so. The county historically logs much higher test scores in general than the city.

And that is a huge source of frustration for city school teachers and administrators, who brace themselves for the annual parade of D's and F's published in the newspaper.

"We must do something to let this community know that Shelby County and Memphis cannot be compared," Watson said.

The relation of poverty to student achievement has been widely debated for years.

Sociologist James S. Coleman sparked a national debate with his 1966 study concluding that the differences in student achievement had more to do with home life and family wealth than what goes on in the schoolhouse.

Watson also pointed to the ACT test scores, which are used to identify schools for the low performing list starting this year, along with other criteria.

A large number of Memphis' 118,000 students don't have college in their sights, so teachers shouldn't have to spend time preparing them for it. "(We) have to prepare them for the world of work after graduation," Watson said.

Memphis scored a D on the ACT portion of the report card, averaging a score of 17 systemwide. The state and national average is 20. Shelby County scored a 21.2 systemwide.

Fogelman and Memphis educators also are fretting over the new Gateway exit exams, which students starting with this year's freshmen must pass before graduation.

The Gateway tests, consisting of separate algebra I, English II and biology tests, present a much higher bar than the current eighth-grade level competency test students must pass to graduate.

According to this year's report card, 45 percent of Memphis freshman passed that test, giving the city an F.In the county, that number is 77 percent, or a B.

- Aimee Edmondson: 529-2773


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: homeschoollist
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TENNESSEE SCHOOL REPORT CARD MEMPHIS RANKS LAST Click Here

Memphis gets the MOST money from the State and Still ranks LAST. Now this MORON wants to lower the standards even MORE.

1 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:04 PM PST by GailA (gail5227@aol.com)
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To: GailA
Being next door in MS I read the Memphis paper a lot. This has been an on going proplem and I suggest that they just give the students a passing for just showing up, at least 20 days out the year.
2 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:05 PM PST by gulfcoast6
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To: GailA
If I didn't live here, I'd think you were making this up. I just heard from a friend of mine that Memphis teachers are among the most highly paid in the country. One would hope that the parents of Memphis would rise up and drive Watson out of town. But most will just move to the county and the others won't care.
3 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:05 PM PST by garbanzo
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To: gulfcoast6
I totally agree with this guy, if these kids actually get a true education, they might prosper, GREATLY increasing the chances they'll vote Republican!
You know the motto: Keep 'em Dumb, keep 'em Democrat!!!
4 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:06 PM PST by FiddlePig
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To: GailA; Constitution Day; Darth Reagan; dei23; flwilliams
Want low standards? Come to NC where 31% is PASSING on end of year exams for 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade.
5 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:06 PM PST by Phantom Lord
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To: Phantom Lord
Most of these kids can't even pass the EIGHTH grade TCap test to get out of High School, even with weeks of coaching before the test is given.

Memphis spends a $1,000 more per pupil than Shelby County does. Yet the county produces a better student. So money is NOT the problem. For ever $4 collected in County taxes $3 of them go to the Memphis City Schools.

6 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:06 PM PST by GailA
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To: GailA
Unfortunately, a more worthless piece of paper from the Memphis school system is not going to make a difference in a job interview.
7 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:07 PM PST by The Duke
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To: *Homeschool_list
bump
8 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:07 PM PST by Khepera
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To: GailA
He is stereotyping poor students. Poor students cannot go to college becasue they are not smart.

I believe students are doing poorly because of low expectations.

9 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:07 PM PST by Tai_Chung
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To: Phantom Lord
Bump!
10 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:08 PM PST by Constitution Day
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To: GailA
"the time has come that we need to stop letting half-baked testing determine what we teach and how we teach. It's controlling the school system..."

What is supposed to control the school system, anyway, Mr. Superintendent? Politics? Arghhh!

11 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:08 PM PST by LurkedLongEnough
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To: GailA
This problem is not unique to inner city schools. Douglas County, Colorado--a very affluent, rapidly growing ranch-burb--recently released it's CSAP results. Those results are tied to graduation. In math, which is the only number I remeber, 81% of seniors who hoped to graduate did not pass the 10th grade math test.

Parents are now agitating to dumb down the standards there.

12 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:10 PM PST by ffrancone
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To: GailA
The kids are getting too smart?? The department of education allowed them to learn???
13 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:13 PM PST by mbb bill
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To: wasp69; cantfindagoodscreenname; BallandPowder; wyopa; joathome; Momto2; RipeforTruth...
Good morning Ping!
14 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:21 PM PST by 2Jedismom
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To: GailA
I thought people (kids) went to school to learn, not to just pass tests.
15 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:34 PM PST by box221
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To: GailA
Sociologist James S. Coleman sparked a national debate with his 1966 study concluding that the differences in student achievement had more to do with home life and family wealth than what goes on in the schoolhouse.

Educrats point to such studies to excuse lackluster student performance in the schools. Then they beg for more of the taxpayers' money.

But if it is the home environment that truly matters, why bother giving more money to the schools?

16 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:41 PM PST by Logophile
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To: garbanzo
Hey Garb, Memphis is Shelby County right??
17 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:48 PM PST by All-American Medic
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To: Tai_Chung
I believe students are doing poorly because of low expectations.

I agree entirely. I have sat in lower learner classes and have been appalled at how teachers talk down to these students and the students, in reply, do not surprise the teachers. I met one teacher who came to the public school from an exclusive private one who told me she believed that she could get the same level of performance out of her public students--and she did. I saw the evidence--she got great work out of these middle-school students. But she was the only teacher I ever met who really believed it. What a pity and a waste.

18 posted on 11/16/2001 1:23:49 PM PST by twigs
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To: Logophile
Logophile wrote:

"But if it is the home environment that truly matters, why bother giving more money to the schools?" WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Uh huh....that sociologist dude..kinda swerved into some truth there..now didn't he? Course we won't be a hearing that more money should stay in the sheeple's pockets. Ha!

Government schools are the biggest monopoly in America today. The Democrat Socialist Leftists..rail and rant against perceived corporate monopolies...but keep the children of this country fettered to a cancerous system that has imploded.

19 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:02 PM PST by Osage Orange
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To: box221
box221 wrote:

"I thought people (kids) went to school to learn, not to just pass tests."

######################################################

Well of course you are correct....I, like probably most, have known many folks through out my schooling and working life that could pass the tests..lickity split. BUT, they were dumb as rocks, when faced with "real world" problems.

I've known some Doc's that were probably "C" students...but had grade "A++" bedside clinician skills. And I've seen just the opposite, big time!! So.....I agree with your "went to school to learn" comment....BUT, then again...we MUST have a way to gauge learning. We must have standards. And currently the best way is to test, in order...to realize one's proficiencies in a subject, or the lack thereof.

FRegards,

20 posted on 11/16/2001 1:25:04 PM PST by Osage Orange
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