Posted on 11/16/2001 1:19:06 PM PST by The Magical Mischief Tour
Then go to school and learn something so you don't come across so ignorantly.
Well, having reviewed a LOT of posts on Flt. 587, I've concluded that some folks have been a little quick on the draw as far as charging conspiracy and cover-up go, and it invites the airline and government codependents to chime in with their tired old "don't confuse the conspiracy nuts with facts" cliches.
But you need to get the thrust of my comment: on the whole, the prize for the wildest imaginations and the most unsubstantiated theories go to the people who keep insisting that this or that mechanical failure theory is possible. Hell, anything within the laws of physics is possible, but 60 days after our country suffered its worst terrorist attack ever, and a week or so after the government announced the likelihood of an imminent further attack, why treat the possible causes of this crash as though this were still peacetime? Why attack concerns about possible terrorist causes of this crash as "conspiracy theories"? I could still be convinced that there was no sabotage and no terrorist involvement, but what seems like the outright propagandizing of a "mechanical failure" scenario makes me very, very suspicious, and I'll keep on being that way, and counsel others to be that way, until I see some more objectivity in this investigation.
Then go to school and learn something so you don't come across so ignorantly.
Speak for yourself, you fraud. Your post was a lie from beginning to end and you know it. Let those post who know what they're talking about. There're ones among them who support a "mechanical failure" scenario and who do so capably, knowledgeably and without lying.
I am pretty ignorant on all of this but the reason I am asking this is is it possible that if the vertical stabilizer was just beginning to become loose during a turn, would the sudden change in the angle from 90 degrees (perfectly perpendicular) be sufficient to reduce the lateral drag enough to allow the plane to shift sideways dramatically enough to cause whatever is measuring the forces to perceive this as additional force rather than the plane moving due to the decreased lateral resistance?
I hope I am phrasing this correctly but I am drawing this from sailing experience where the sail captures more wind when the boat is flat rather than leaning at an angle.
If this were the case then that may mean that the lateral forces were more of a symptom of the plane deteriorating rather than the cause. Then with each attempt to correct for the structural damage that was occuring more damage was actually being inflicted finally resulting in the total separation of the stabilizer.
Just looking for a better understanding.
It is 9:12PM eastern time now. Hannity and Colmes are on Fox News Channel . They said later in the broadcast they would have an "Expert" on who believes the plane crash was an act of terrorism.
Right now they are discussing the Christians who were released.
I don't have an opinion yet on the cause of the crash except that the explanations so far seem weak. -Tom
Nice to hear that flight attendants are supporting the explanation that'll discourage fewer people from cancelling their airline reservations. Now can you post the actual statistics on the safety record of this "junk" aircraft? I saw some that indicated the Airbus did not have a safety record that was worse than other manufactures. Anyone know the FACTS? Go ahead, someone: don't be afraid to "confuse" this "tinfoil hat conspiracy nut."
A picture is worth a thousand words - Everyone needs to look at these....HOLY $hit!
With all respect Calvin, don't try to defend them. From what I've read so far here, 0.8g's is nothing abnormal, so what you're saying is, if the plane wouldn't have attempted to fly, the loose tail would not have been a problem?
Can you get one of the Airbus mechanics to comment?
If it's any help, here's the AP story on the conference:
November 15, 2001 at 17:15:25 PST
Doomed Flight Twice Hit Turbulence
NEW YORK- American Airlines Flight 587 twice ran into turbulence left by a jumbo jet, including a blast of air that sent it careening sideways seconds before it crashed, investigators said Thursday.
With their inquiry focused on why the tail fin and rudder sheared off cleanly before the crash, investigators with the National Transportation Safety Board released further details Thursday on the final seconds of the doomed flight.
After the Airbus A300 experienced two turbulent "wake encounters," the rudder stopped sending usable data to the flight data recorder, the jetliner shook violently and then went into a steep dive.
"We have eight seconds we're going to be looking at in extreme detail," said Tom Haueter, the NTSB's deputy director of aviation. He said investigators are not ready to conclude that the tail fin sheared off at that point.
But experts are looking closely at whether the tail's composite structure or the wake of the Japan Airlines jumbo jet may have contributed to the tail failure.
The JAL 747 left from the same runway at Kennedy Airport less than two minutes earlier. Monday's crash killed all 260 people aboard the jet bound for the Dominican Republic and five more people on the ground in Queens.
Within eight seconds of the second wake encounter, Flight 587 began banking hard with its left wing down. The flight data recorder cut off at that point.
NTSB investigator George Black Jr. said investigators were almost certain the tail broke off before the jetliner's twin engines did. While cautioning that investigators are not ready to rule out sabotage, he said the tail "doesn't appear to have been sabotaged in any way."
Black also said the pilots of Flight 587 were probably unaware its tail fin had broken off as they struggled to control the plane.
"They don't have a rearview mirror," he told The Associated Press. "They have no idea they've lost a tail."
In Washington, the Federal Aviation Administration was preparing to order inspections of Airbus A300s, focusing on the tail. The order would cover 90 of the European-built planes used by three U.S. airlines - American, FedEx and United Parcel Service. American has already agreed to do voluntary inspections of its 34 remaining A300s.
"We understand that American Airlines is inspecting their fleet as a very precautionary measure," said a spokeswoman for Airbus in Toulouse, France. "We do not yet know what went wrong."
The tail assembly on the Airbus A300 includes a tail fin and rudder; without those parts, the jetliner would have suffered a loss of stability and turning control.
Besides the effects of turbulence, investigators are looking at the tail's makeup. It is made of composites, or carbon-fiber reinforced plastic that is incredibly strong.
Composite materials started being used for major structural parts in commercial jets in the late 1970s and early '80s. Black said there haven't been any problems with the material, "but then we also haven't lost any tails."
Maintenance records indicate that before the plane was delivered to American Airlines in 1988, one of the six fittings that hold the tail to the fuselage had to be repaired by the manufacturer. The fitting's thickness was increased and it was reinforced with rivets.
The cockpit voice recorder, the plane's other black box, has offered potential clues to investigators.
For example, the co-pilot calls for maximum power about two minutes after takeoff, just after a pair of jet frame rattling noises are heard in the cockpit. Seconds later, the pilots indicate they were losing control.
"When they start talking about max power ... they've gone into recovery mode," Black said. "And they might be recovering from the wrong thing, because they don't know" about the missing tail.
The voice recording ends 19 seconds after the call for maximum power.
With much of its work on the ground done, the NTSB planned to shut down its main investigation in New York by Saturday and return to Washington, Black said.
At the crash site Thursday, large pieces of shattered wreckage were pulled from the neighborhood where Flight 587 plunged to earth and workers with pitchforks and rakes moved methodically through smaller piles of rubble. The crash destroyed or damaged 11 homes.
All the bodies were recovered from the site, with cleanup of the wreckage expected by this weekend, said Marion Blakey, the NTSB chairwoman. The engines were sent to Tulsa, Okla., for a complete breakdown, while other sections of the plane were sent to their manufacturers for inspection, she said.
The airline has changed the flight number from 587 to 619. The flight from Kennedy to the Dominican Republic was so well known among Dominicans that it was referenced in a popular song, "El Avion (The Plane)."
Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said a memorial service will be held Sunday for victims of the crash, but specifics were not immediately disclosed.
365 posts on this thread and you are the first person to ask -- to see the actual quotes? I wonder why the actual quotes were not put in the original post?
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