Pakistan may be source of anthrax attacks

The Times Of India ^ | November 7th,2001 | CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

[Ada Coddington]

How does a letter mailed from Pakistan implicate the Pakistani government? If that were the case, would the several anthrax-laced letters mailed in the United States implicate the U.S. government? Don't succumb to bad logic, please.

It doesn't. Would require more proof. What we have is a Pakistani suspect whom we cannot find in the Trenton mailings and at least one mailing from Pakistan. I think the chances of the anthrax coming from a government lab are more likely than from a individual or private group.

[pumacan]

And then you refused to address my second question - if a single anthrax-laced letter mailed in Pakistan implicates the Pakistani government in state-sponsored terrorism, then shouldn't the anthrax-laced letters mailed in the United States implicate the U.S. government in the same?

I never refused to answer this. Infact I did answered that by saying the Pakistani government may have been invloved in this and other terrorist acts, but not yet proved.

Now regarding the antrax-laced letters mailed in the united states, this may have been mailed by terrorists currently slipped into USA who are supported by Bin Laden who is supported by Taleban in turn who is funded and supported by Pakistani government. Thus we reached to the dead end and thus probably to the very source of this terror. Again it's not yet proved but may be.

Trying to change the subject, eh? That's another time-honored propaganda technique, especially when you couple it as you have here with a demand that I prove a negative. You may think you're being slick here, but we've seen oodles of propaganda of varying quality over the years, and your stuff is definitely minor-league.

Again I have nothing to prove here. Everyone is expressing their own views here and so do I. But for some reason you want to question everyone why do they view so? What is the proof? Aren't we also in the same league? extra...extra.. Looks like you want to hear from me that we all should stop blaming each other on terrorism and just accept the almighty fate.

[maestro]

And, the Pakistani would say India's provocatuers did the deed.

[dirtboy]

Infact I did answered that by saying the Pakistani government may have been invloved in this and other terrorist acts, but not yet proved.

Wrong. You claimed this implicated first Pakistan, and then the Pakistani government. I said it did nothing of the sort, and you have refused to back off your claim.

Again I have nothing to prove here. Everyone is expressing their own views here and so do I. But for some reason you want to question everyone why do they view so? What is the proof? Aren't we also in the same league?

Ah, now the Kumbaya approach. And I don't question everyone for expressing their views - but folks here need to back up their viewpoints.

extra...extra.. Looks like you want to hear from me that we all should stop blaming each other on terrorism and just accept the almighty fate.

Another lame attempt to deflect the fact that your logic is more full of holes than Swiss cheese...

[dirtboy]

And, the Pakistani would say India's provocatuers did the deed.

Yep, you understand how this game is played - but the absurd logic gives the propagandists away...

[Dog Gone]

The preliminary test for the letter mailed to Jang was positive for anthrax, although nobody has developed any symptoms. As of Monday, the specimens were being cultured in a laboratory at the Pakistani National Institute of Health in Islamabad, and the results should be known sometime this week. Those results are far more definitive than the field tests.

It might turn out to be nothing, just as in this story, or not. We'll have to wait to see.

[dirtboy]

What we have is a Pakistani suspect whom we cannot find in the Trenton mailings and at least one mailing from Pakistan.

Actually, the Pakistani mailing turned out to not have anthrax, so this discussion becomes moot anyway.

I think the chances of the anthrax coming from a government lab are more likely than from a individual or private group.

Well, if a group has enough money, there are plenty of scientists from the former Soviet Union who are being paid eighty dollars a month and who probably would leap at the money paid to start a clandestine bioterror lab - so IMO nothing can be ruled out. But if I were at the track, I would bet on a state-lab pony over the others.

[pumacan]

Another lame attempt to deflect the fact that your logic is more full of holes than Swiss cheese...

You may have lost your common sense today. You are not in a listening and understanding mood today.

[servantoftheservant]

Some of us on FR have serious doubts about the trustworthyness of the Pakistani government.

1. The Pakistanis created and propped up the Taliban government in Afghanistan.

2. Along with the monstrous dictatorship in Myanmar, Pakistan is China's strongest ally in South Asia, and one of China's best allies worldwide. There are clear indications that China provided Pak with the material/expertise necessary to create nuclear weapons.

3. Pakistan has funded and equipped radical Islamic terror groups in Kashmir which are slowly purging the state of anyone who is not Muslim. These groups train in the camps the Taliban (read: Pakistan) set up in Afghanistan.

4. There have been many indications since this war started that Pakistan has continued to supply the Taliban. There are also indications that Pakistan is undermining US efforts to create an inclusive government for Afghanistan by betraying opposition leaders inserted in Afghanistan (Abdul Haq).

Mussharif presided over Pakistans continued creation and funding of the Taliban, continued terror in Kashmir and the Kargil incursion a few years ago, and Pak's continued cozy relationship with China. But now, you think he and Pakistan are suddenly against terrorism and the Taliban and are friends of America? Get a clue.

Pakistan is only cooperating with us under durress. Remember the speech he made to the Pakistani people? 'The existance of our nation is at stake?' You better believe America knows the Taliban is a Pak creation, and we let them know right quick after 9/11 that they either cooperate with us, or get taken out.

You're right, the anthrax letter in this article doesn't prove anything, but taken in context, it's an 'indicator' that shouldn't be ignored.

[wjeanw]

If past administrations would have paid attention to the director of the Congressional Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, we would have been prepared. In three books, published throughout the 90's, Yossef Bodansky has been documenting the rise of Islamism and its terrorist network. Pakistan has been in the thick of it from the beginning, publically giving support to the US, while secretly working to undermine its interests in the region. The fact that it has been reported Pakistan is moving their nuclear weapons to China for "safe-keeping" should give you a clue as to what is happening. I hope the doomsday scenario also outlined in Bodansky's books doesn't happen: the US attacked by a combined overwhelming strike by the combined forces of Iraq, Iran, Syria, China, and N. Korea.

[dirtboy]

You may have lost your common sense today.

I'm not the one implying that a letter mailed in Pakistan implicates the Pakistani government.

You are not in a listening and understanding mood today.

Oh, really? You should see me when I'm in a BAD mood...I understand just fine that you tried to spin something, got caught and are now trying tried-and-true propganda techniques to avoid that fact. But we're accustomed to catching greased pigs around here...

[John H K]

Actually both letters (Jang and Lahore) were tested by Ft. Detrick and no anthrax was found.

[dirtboy]

Some of us on FR have serious doubts about the trustworthyness of the Pakistani government.

So do I - but regarding your point about the Pakistanis creating the Taliban, that happened before Mushareef came to power.

You're right, the anthrax letter in this article doesn't prove anything, but taken in context, it's an 'indicator' that shouldn't be ignored.

Well, we can safely ignore it, since subsequent tests on the letters have revealed that there was no anthrax on the letters in question.

[gumbo]

Well, then work on your reading comprehension. pumacan said this implicates the Pakistani government.

You're really on a tear today, aren't you. You're directing your nastiness at a newbie who doesn't deserve it. I did not see pumacan state as a fact, anywhere, that it "implicates" the Pakistani government. Seems clear to me this is speculation on his part, as it is on mine (as we are free to do on FR, thank you FR).

Instead of continuing to pretend that pumacan's and my posts are somehow a smear of either a) all Pakistani people, or b) President Musharraf, or c) all of the above, please acknowledge that I have emphasized that I think there are ELEMENTS in the Pakistani government that I SPECULATE may have engaged in activities supportive of terrorists.

Well, Egyptians were involved in the WTC attacks - so is Mubarak somehow implicated by that fact?

Bad logic, dirtboy. Again, NOBODY here has "implicated" Musharraf. If I'm wrong, please point me to an exact quote saying such. Don't stretch a some generalized quote to extend to Musharraf again, please. That's not "logic."

AND I STILL SEE NO RESPONSE FROM YOU REGARDING IMPLICATIONS OF PAKISTANI GOV'T ELEMENTS IN THE BETRAYAL AND MURDER OF ABDUL HAQ.

We have no evidence, other than the fact that a letter was mailed in Pakistan

Yes, we DO have evidence of a Pakistani connection to the anthrax mailings - which is what I was talking about. Not "one letter mailed in Pakistan," but the raids resulting in at least one arrest and several detentions of Pakistani nationals living in Trenton/Hamilton.

I'm disappointed in you, dirtboy. I'm tired of this cr*ppy treatment of a newbie who's committed no particular crime. I have to go do some work now. So if you don't see more replies from me, it's not that I'm "afraid" to defend my assertions. It's just that I don't have the time or energy at the moment to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

[dirtboy]

You're really on a tear today, aren't you. You're directing your nastiness at a newbie who doesn't deserve it. I did not see pumacan state as a fact, anywhere, that it "implicates" the Pakistani government.

Hardly, he said as such in one of his posts - and other posters such as Dog Gone saw it as well. You can delude yourself all you want.

Seems clear to me this is speculation on his part, as it is on mine (as we are free to do on FR, thank you FR).

Speculation is one thing. Speculation from bogus logic is another, especially when it is not defended and instead the poster hides behind the notion that views need not be defended. Saying that this attack implicated the government of Pakistan is a step further.

Instead of continuing to pretend that pumacan's and my posts are somehow a smear of either a) all Pakistani people, or b) President Musharraf, or c) all of the above, please acknowledge that I have emphasized that I think there are ELEMENTS in the Pakistani government that I SPECULATE may have engaged in activities supportive of terrorists.

Now YOU are engaging in word games. I have never said that YOUR posts are a smear of Musharraf - just pumacan's. My beef is with him, but you keep trying to play word games to divert away from his junk.

Bad logic, dirtboy. Again, NOBODY here has "implicated" Musharraf. If I'm wrong, please point me to an exact quote saying such.

I already did. pumacan said this implicated the Pakistani government - and who is the government? Musharraf, last I checked.

AND I STILL SEE NO RESPONSE FROM YOU REGARDING IMPLICATIONS OF PAKISTANI GOV'T ELEMENTS IN THE BETRAYAL AND MURDER OF ABDUL HAQ.

I already told you I don't know anything one way or the other - and it has NOTHING to do with the subject I am debating with pumacan. But I guess it makes you feel better to try and change the subject to score your points...

Yes, we DO have evidence of a Pakistani connection to the anthrax mailings - which is what I was talking about. Not "one letter mailed in Pakistan," but the raids resulting in at least one arrest and several detentions of Pakistani nationals living in Trenton/Hamilton.

And once again, do the actions of Pakistani nationals implicate the government of Pakistan? No more than the action of Egyptian nationals in the WTC attacks implicate Mubarak.

I'm disappointed in you, dirtboy. I'm tired of this cr*ppy treatment of a newbie who's committed no particular crime.

We don't like foreign propaganda here, many posters have been booted from the site for engaging in such. This is, first and foremost, an AMERICAN site. Instead of bitching at me, maybe you could take pumacan to task for pulling such tricks as changing the subject or asking me to prove a negative ... oh, that's right, you like using some of those tricks yourself. Never mind.

I have to go do some work now. So if you don't see more replies from me, it's not that I'm "afraid" to defend my assertions. It's just that I don't have the time or energy at the moment to keep banging my head against a brick wall.

Try instead sticking to the subject and you won't be so frustrated.

[servantoftheservant]

but regarding your point about the Pakistanis creating the Taliban, that happened before Mushareef came to power.

Agreed. But the Musharif government continued to supply and fund the Taliban, and use the infamous 'terrorist camps' in Afghanistan as training grounds for the radical Islamic killers in Kashmir. Musharif is a good statesman, he understands that Pakistan will likely not exist if he doesn't cooperate with us right now.

That doesn't mean he likes it, and it certainly doesn't mean he's suddenly had a moving moment of epiphany and realized that terrorism really is bad, and earnestly wants to atone for his country's sins. lol

Thanks for the info on the subsequent anthrax tests.

Regards

[Thud]

The existence of wacko factions within Pakistan's Inter-Service Intelligence Agency (ISI), which are allied with Al Qaeda, is not evidence that the Pakistani government agrees with that absent other evidence.

Though that does depend on the definition of "government" - most non-Western countries do not have governments anywhere near as centralized as Western ones. It is fairly common in undeveloped/lesser developed countries for a particular ministry or bureaucracy to be controlled by one faction while other, conflicting, factions control other ministries/bureaucracies.

China is a good example of this. The ministry which exports weapons and nuclear weapon proliferation technology/equipment is controlled by a different "alliance" of factions within the Chinese hereditary aristocracy (the Thousand Princes) than those which control the trade and foreign ministries.

Getting back to Pakistan, we know that at least President Musharraf and his associates are trying to help us against Al Qaeda. How successful they will be remains to be seen. There are encouraging signs that a new lineup of factions along ethnic and tribal lines, as opposed to religious lines, is emerging, notably the traditional one of the Indus Valley lowlanders against the mountain barbarians aka the Pushtun tribe.

[Thud]

Please post a URL for that.

Actually both letters (Jang and Lahore) were tested by Ft. Detrick and no anthrax was found.

[syriacus]

Btw, I believe at least one of the Pakistani detainees in New Jersey has made many trips recently back and forth from Pakistan. No, of course that doesn't PROVE anything...but it adds weight to a growing list of suspicious activities.

And former roommates Azmath and Khan were in Hyderabad India from January through July. They each got married while they were home in India. Azmath married a Pakistani woman.

[summer]

Re your post #86 - Thanks for that update.