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William Cooper, national militia movement leader, killed in shootout with law officers
Arizona Republic/AP ^ | 11/6/01 | Mighty Mouse

Posted on 11/06/2001 9:00:49 PM PST by Mighty Mouse

Edited on 05/07/2004 5:20:47 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

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To: Diddle E. Squat
You are in a losing battle my friend.

I have watched this thread and the related ones for days.

Your antagonists here will NEVER be convinced by anything as simple as logic.

In order to win you would have to "get it". Apparantly, in order to "get it", you must NEVER accept that one of their heroes could easily have been confused with one of the folks you find wandering the streets of most big cities, spouting the alien invasion/government is my enemy/the CIA is behind all problems ect.

Yet, with a radio he is suddenly a leader and hero.

Didnt think he needed a licence to drive? One of the primary reasons for drivers licences is to regulate who can drive, if for no other reason than public safety. In the world of no licences, children, the infirm, mentaly retarded and any other person could simply get behind the wheel and go.

If this is the world you desire and the leaders you follow, count me out.

But I dont "get it" either.

121 posted on 11/07/2001 9:14:47 PM PST by knews_hound
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To: Justin Thyme
I did sue the IRS. They own the judges, the U. S. Attorneys, the post office, the phone system, the department of defense, the banks, the media, the Senate, the House... Ya know what? Hard to believe, but I lost my case. Things ain't going to be changing anytime soon, via the courts or anyway else in these regards.

They couldn't win the case I filed so they changed the case, attributed statements to me in the ruling that I didn't make and lied in the rulings where ever it was necessary to support the ruling they were going to make. They originally charged me with falsifying my taxes and 6 months later, after all the damage was done, (lost my job) they said I was right all along.

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

They tapped my phone. Had my house buzzed with a military helicopter (caught on tape). Subpoenaed all my lawyers records. Bugged my lawyers office. And put my computer under real time surveilance. Want to hear more?

And would you believe this, they justlogged me off my own computer, just as I was going to post this message.

Hey cut it out already!

Oh and did I mention that they backdated and or intercepted mail with regards to the case and opened mail addressed to me from the U. S. Attorney. Only on America!

122 posted on 11/07/2001 9:50:11 PM PST by The Bolt
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
OK Majestytwelve, and I believe he advanced the conspiracy theory wherein the alien abductions were really a mind game which was a result of Revolution in military affairs asociated with fringe topics also dabbled in 'mind control' fringe theories.

Allusions seemed to be made that advanced electronic warfare and studies in mental phenomenon had led to a state of art wherein dreams could be induced, voices planted in one's thoughts, other ideas or emotions induced, etc.

Seems like Cooper advanced the notion that the alien abduction reports were actually real military encounters with the encounter cloaked by a false image being imparted on the unwitting observer or passer-by. Sort of a tangent to the Men-in-Black flashing ball point pen resetting a person's memory only with reidentifying any person during the encounter as an alien form.

My impression of his death is analagous to a visitor in Crete witnessing a conflict between a Turk and a Greek patriot. One might not know who started what, and understand arguments defending both points of view rigorously, but at least one could glean a very real conflict existed.

123 posted on 11/08/2001 3:01:00 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr
You need a course in reading comprehension, and I need one in writing for the... nevermind, anything before the word guarantee, is speculative, rumor, rhetorical, dressing, to the only guaranteed statement in my comments, that we would not be hearing mr cooper's side of things. Not written, but understood, would be the final, "from his lips".

I have no idea what a wiccan hit squad is, or what it has to do with this thread.

124 posted on 11/08/2001 3:32:30 AM PST by wita
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To: Prodigal Daughter
uh, prodigal , that man in calif who was shot and killed took out a sheriffs deputy, and continued to fire upon police and firefighters as they tried to extinguish the fire that it is believed he set. Decisions have consequences, and bad decisions often have unfortunate and rather permanent consequences. I often don't agree with our government, or the things it does, but that does not give me the right EVEN IF I AM RIGHT to bring down a firefight in a town and wound and kill cops. If you disagree, fine, speak and be heard. Killing public servants does nothing for the cause of personal liberty, except portraying all its adherents as screwball loonies who will resort to violence on the thinnest of pretexts. BTW, I am a cop and if someone pulls a gun on me, the last thing on my mind is a persons beliefs, race, gender or politics.What I see is THE GUN. This person chose to settle his differences with violence, and officers acting in self defense(as is their right by both the constitution and common law)chose to continue breathing. Mr Coopers death was the direct result of a poor decision making process, and nothing else. Not "jackbooted thugs" , just cops who wanted to go home at the end of the day and hug their wives and children. Im sure mr. cooper wanted to do the same, but his actions left police no other options.

Slainte,

CC

125 posted on 11/08/2001 4:12:49 AM PST by Celtic Conservative
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To: Cvengr
You seem to know more about it than me. Overall, still appears to be an unhappy episode all around.
126 posted on 11/08/2001 5:58:11 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
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To: The Bolt
Very interesting story. I'm sorry to hear of your difficulties. How much, if any, did it interfer with getting your next job? I hope things have gotten back to normal for you.

I have no doubts that it would be difficult, at best, to sue the government. On the other hand, I know absolutely nothing about you, or your case. Sometimes cases are lost due to technicalities, sometimes due to manipulation from the other side, and sometimes, it's due to not having a good case to begin with. I have no idea if any of these apply to your case.

Anyway, I sincerely hope things have worked out better for you since.
127 posted on 11/08/2001 6:24:50 AM PST by Justin Thyme
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To: Dog Gone
It does, however, make you a criminal.

A technicality only cared about by statists. It is not an indication of ones moral stature. A fraudulent law demands to be disobeyed.

128 posted on 11/08/2001 7:20:36 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Demidog
To an anarchist, all rules imposed by society are statist, and criminal conduct is but a mere technicality important only to others.

An anarchist may be a moral person, without question. That has nothing to do with whether an enforceable law has been broken, although the statists who object to the criminal's conduct might consider it in determining the extent of the punishment.

129 posted on 11/08/2001 7:40:55 AM PST by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone
I'm not an anarchist. And I have no idea whether or not you are a statist. My point was that all laws are not legitimate and thus the term "criminal" is a technicality. One can own a certain kind of gun nowadays and be considered a criminal by the statists. That hardly makes him immoral or criminal in the true sense.
130 posted on 11/08/2001 7:44:44 AM PST by Demidog
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To: Celtic Conservative
If everything you state is true, I stand corrected. I don't envy your job, but I do believe strongly that some of the worst victims of corrupt cops are the honest, dedicated policemen.

I live in Miami so I've seen an upsurge of crimes against citizenry by corrupt government officials and the policemen who support them. When you have 80 year old grandmothers chained to traffic posts for three hours, Janet Ray Weininger, daughter of an American hero thrown against a glass window and breaking her nose, as she's walking out of a restaurant with a decorated Vietnam vet, who the policemen tells he did it because someone threw a bottle at him three blocks away and he was mad, and other atrocious behavior over the years, you get jaded by it all. Shalom, PD

131 posted on 11/08/2001 8:00:53 AM PST by Prodigal Daughter
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To: editor-surveyor
Re:persecution, assasination and tyranny.

See

132 posted on 11/08/2001 8:48:27 AM PST by spunkets
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To: spunkets
Patriot Broadcaster and Father apparently went "over-the edge"

But if they knew that he was 'over' why didn't they pop him with a T-dart, and take him to the nut house rather than head into a predictible gun fight?

At best it's some really bad police work, and more likely a leagalized snuffing.

I realize that some people are too paranoid to be carrying guns; some of my neighbors staged the re-make of the O-K corral out on a forrest service road near Twain Harte. - Now one is in the hospital, and the other is in jail, and all of it over their over-active, paranoid imaginations.

133 posted on 11/08/2001 7:10:49 PM PST by editor-surveyor
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To: Justin Thyme
The truth is I had an airtight case. That's why I lost. Just trying to show me who is boss. Of course Clinton insinuating his crookedness into the situation didn't help either. The law clearly states one thing, but since that was not policy (forget the law again), I got a sheet of paper that said I won my case.

Monetary damages were "against policy." I got a piece of paper saying they wouldn't do to me again, what they had already done to me on a systematic basis over an extended period of time (try about 6 years). Heck of a deterrent don't you think? No, they just got more sophisticated about it.

Anyway, I appealed the decision of the regional authority to the General Counsel in Washington (what timing). After a year and a half waiting for the big creep sugar bubba to appoint a general counsel to rule on the appeal, lo and behold the SOB appointed the same counsel that had made the original unlawful decision in the first place, to the General Counsel position in Washington. Well, what do you think the General Counsel's decision from Washington was? The same decision. So much for independent review. The guy reviewed his own decision.

It wouldn't have been so bad, except that most of my situation was brought about because I was known to be, god forbid, an evil REPUBLICAN!

Well I bought a tape recorder to record my phone conversations with these UNELECTED officials (turnabout is fair play) and guess what? The tape recorder is lying. "My memory fails me." "I only remember what I want to remember." A house cleaning is in order IMHO. Never happen!

134 posted on 11/08/2001 8:53:18 PM PST by The Bolt
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