William Cooper, national militia movement leader, killed in shootout with law officers

Arizona Republic/AP ^ | 11/6/01 | Mighty Mouse

[Mighty Mouse]

EAGAR - A national leader of the militia movement has been killed and an Apache County sheriff's deputy wounded in a shootout, authorities said.

William Milton Cooper, 58, of Eager, had hosted a talk show broadcast on the Worldwide Christian Radio out of Nashville, which receives it via phone from his home in St. Johns. He had millions of listeners worldwide, including Timothy McVeigh.

[slhill]

Um, there is a difference between "right to travel" and "right to travel by car". The gov't wouldn't have stopped Mr Cooper walking, cycling or buying a plane ticket. It would have tried to prevent him flying a military jet armed with a nuclear missile or pogo-ing down the freeways into oncoming traffic, however. The distinctions the gov't would make seem pretty clearcut to me.

[slhill]

Oh for heaven's sake! What's the point of going beyond even point 1 when it is so PATENTLY CONTRADICTED BY THE FACTS? Hamas and Islamic Jihad's modus operandi is for a young zealot to strap explosives to his body and then go and blow himself up near a target. That is suicide. It is carried out with the blessing and approval of Islamic scholars and many, many Muslims. The attackers are called martyrs, and are praised and venerated by many Muslims. They are not called suicides and despised.

[slhill]

You draw the following distinction: ""Driving" is a commercial activity and can be regulated. On that you are correct. "Traveling by car" is not commercial and as long as title to car is in your personal name (and not registered to the state) can not be regulated." The purpose of your driving is much less important than the means you choose to the question of "does and should the gov't regulate this?". Otherwise it would be legal and permissible to attempt to drive Concorde down a freeway (assuming you were rich enough to buy it). I doubt many people would think you have an inalienable right to do that. Do you?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Gene Roddenberry's been dead for several years. Of course, there were only glowing tributes to a man who pushed the alien agenda so devotedly.

Also, in earlier reports of Cooper's demise, it was reported that he believed in aliens. Obviously, the writers hadn't read his book.

[lotus]

I was thinking along thoses same lines, they have arrested/detained over 2000 people related to 9/11 and no one is killed; arrest an american and someone dies.

With so many cases of cops shooting themselves and blaming the suspect how can you tell what the truth is?

Why did he wait till he got to the house to shoot?
Seems the original report said he was running to the door and firing very acurately.
Then I guess they heard he had a wooden leg so it changed to he was walking to the door and turned on the deputy and fired. - - go figure

[editor-surveyor]

"If you don't obey the (unconstitutional) law and then forcefully refuse to be punishedpersecuted; they shoot assinate you. It's a simple concept, central in the idea of government TYRANNY.

[goodieD]

LOL! excellent idea!

[TexanaRED]

"The right to make use of an automobile as a vehicle of travel along the highways of the state, is no longer an open question. The owners thereof have the same rights in the road and streets as the drivers of horses or those riding a bicycle or traveling in some other vehicle. House v. Cramer, 112 N.W.3; 134 Iowa 374 (1907)

Each citizen has the absolute right to choose for himself the mode of conveyance he desires, whether it be by wagon or carriage, by horse, motor or electric car, or by bicycle, or astride of a horse, subject to the sole condition that he will observe all those requirements that are known as the law of the road. This right of the people to the use of the public streets of a city is so well established and so universally recognized in this country, that it has become part of the alphabet of fundamental rights of the citizen. While the tyranny of the American system of government very largely consists in the action of the municipal authorities, this right has not yet been questioned or attempted to be abridged. There can be no question, then, but that a citizen riding on a bicycle in that part of the street devoted to the passage of vehicles, is but exercising his legal right to its use, and a city ordinance that attempts to forbid such use of that part of a public street would be held void as agianst common rights. Swift v. City of Topeka , 43 Kan. 671, 674 (1890)

Personal liberty, which is guaranteed to every citizen under our Constitution and laws, consists of the right of locomotion, - to go where one pleases, and when, and to do that which may lead to one's business or pleasure, only so far restrained as the rights of others may make it necessary for the welfare of all other citizens. One may travel along the public highways or in public places ***These are rights which existed long before our Consitution, and we have taken just pride in their maintenance, making them a part of the fundamental law of the land. Pinkerton v. Verberg, 78 Mich. 573, 584, 44 N.W. 579 (1889)

The right to operate a motor vehicle (an automobile) upon the public streets is not a mere privilege. It is a right or liberty, the enjoyment of which is protected by the guarantees of the federal and state constitutions. Adams V. City of Pocatello, 416 P.2d, 46, 48; 91 Idaho 99 (1966)

The right of a citizen to travel upon public highways ***includes the right in so doing to use the ordinary and usual conveyances of the day; and under the existing modes of travel includes the right to drive a horse-drawn carriage or wagon thereon, or to operate an automobile thereon, for the usual and ordinary purposes of life and business. ***The right aforesaid, being fundamental, are constitutional rights. Teche Lines v. Danforth, 12 So.2d 784, 787 (Miss. 1943)

I have pages of court cases establishing the right to travel by vehicle (automobile) as a inherent, fundamental, Constitutional RIGHT - not a privledge.

You would be wise to research and understand exactly what a license is.

[Justin Thyme]

You would be wise to research and understand exactly what a license is.

Hmmm...sounds a little sharp for the rest of the conversation, but oh well.... I have no problems with understanding of the word.

Some good points there. It would appear that the first three cases you cite, however, are merely acknowledging the right to the use of, or travel on roads, regardless of means of transport. In and of themselves, they don't seem to confirm that the automobile was a "right".

The last two seem to address the points much better. I still don't know if the true intent was to say that it was a fundamental right to use a car, or a fundamental right of all to use the public road system. I'll try to look up the cases for more details.

Thanks for the references.

[agitator]

I'm going to be running some interviews that Alex Jones did with a couple of locals on my show tonight.

[monkeywrench]

"I don`t mind having a license because I expect other road users to know the rules of the road so that they pose less danger to me..." Any wreck I've been in, the other driver was licensed. Do you feel safer, now? :)

[Cvengr]

Refresh my memory.Didn't Cooper advance the idea that the UFOs and aliens were associated with MAJIC-12 and that the aliens were better identified in some cases as demons, or fallen angels as historicaly referenced. The Majesty/Majestic/Majic/MAJC/MJ-12 theories having been founded back by Truman then Eisenhower after making an agreement between man and the devil (aliens) to trade facilities and access to bio material to perform genentic research by the aliens in return for UFO hi-technology,...and the mother of all conspiracies continued from there?

Later, other CTs tended to merge into these, like JFK assasination, Dulce Wars, Underground caverns, Nazis in South America and the Antarctic, many of the X-File detailed themes seemed to have been born by his work.

[Slapper]

You`ll notice I said less danger. I believe that licensed drivers are safer than non-licensed drivers. I never said licensed drivers were perfect.

[Fury]

I have pages of court cases establishing the right to travel by vehicle (automobile) as a inherent, fundamental, Constitutional RIGHT - not a privledge.

There is a huge difference between rights explicit in the Constitution and laws that establish one's ability to travel by vehicle. Sorry, but there is no constitutional right to travel by vehicle.

[Fury]

2. re: federal income taxes, see "unconstitutional" as in Article 1, Sec. 8 of US Constitution. Notwithstanding the 16th Amendment, fraudulently ratified and an abomination to the Constitution, our founders and their intent. But it was specifically adopted by Karl Marx, alleged writer of "the Communist Manifesto", used as a blueprint by The Soviet Union, largest mass murderers of their own countrymen in history (People's Republic of China may be number one, but then Marx was one of Mao's disciples anyway).

I'm no fan of the Federal Income Tax, but it was not fraudulently ratified.

And Marx (1818-1883) was not one of Mao's (1893-1976) disciples, if by Mao, you mean Mao Zedong...

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It's my understanding that Cooper wrote "Majestytwelve" which puts "alien-sightings" under the catagory of secret military weapons. Later, it seems, for whatever reason, others co-opted the name Majic-12, which purports to tell about government cover-ups of actual alien space ship landings, etc.

Just scanning the web, I found a site which gives you a good take on his view of E.T.s -- www.williamcooper.com/area51.htm.

His book, "Behold a Pale Horse," is an interesting read, and I think it's a shame he's dead.

[Dog Gone]

And of course those old founding fathers in Boston who defied the law were all nuts too eh?

Defying laws does not mean you are nuts. It does, however, make you a criminal.

[Nogbad]

I used to listen to Cooper's short wave broadcasts.

His programs were fascinatingly weird.
I never quite figured out what he believed,
but it was something to the effect that a secret society of Masonic illuminati
that dated back to Babylonian times
was trying to take over the world.
It seems every figure of note was in it,
he even mistrusted Pat Buchanan because he belonged to some Catholic society or other.

Perhaps someone can clarify his beliefs for me.

Is it true, by the way, that he did not lose his leg in a military engagement,
but rather, had a motorcyle accident while drunk?

[Christmas Valley Sunrise]

(((Is it true, by the way, that he did not lose his leg in a military engagement, but rather, had a motorcyle accident while drunk?)))

In his book (Pale Horse)page 27 Mr. Cooper explains he was forced off the road by a black limo and left for dead. A month later the same limo forced him into another accident that resulted in the loss of his leg. Later two men came to the hospital and theatened him again..... CVS