Posted on 11/05/2001 10:55:50 AM PST by dennisw
We've tried doing that. It's failed.
You're wrong. There is little or no enforcement of the employer ID requirements or of the so-called "employer penalties." The big INS raids that used to take place 15 years ago don't happen anymore. That's all because the INS is not enforcing the law. They won't even let local law enforcement check or do anything else about criminal suspects' immigration status here in Southern California.
On the other hand, the EEOC has regulations prohibiting employers from "discriminating" on the basis of "immigration status." Know what? They enforce those regs.
Don't tell me the immigration law "doesn't work." It's not only not enforced, the Feds also have "civil rights" regulations in effect that provide legal disincentives, to add to the economic ones, for employers to try to obey the immigration laws. We don't have the will to enforce our existing immigration laws, let alone enforce new ones.
I'm not much of a cop, but can't these "businesses" be raided and closed. I read where the FBI raided three of these businesses and handcuffed the owner and his employees and took them to jail. (or is the case that these businesses are inside homes and such?
And what does it have to do with determining who's walking the streets in your favorite Mexican neighborhood? The determination should happen when the identity is checked in situations like employment, traffic stop etc.
We've tried for some time to require employers to confirm status. Hasn't worked.
You aren't offering any details. If you arrive at the conclusion that it won't work if done correctly, then you need to explain why and why past attempts, which I am not aware of, serve as a proof of anything.
And there is an ample underground economy.
The bulk of illegals work for legitimate companies. The rest will be caught with time.
I agree we should nail employers who hire illegals, I think it might help SOME. But you still have millions of illegals on the street, a large number of whom are indistinguishable from legal aliens and naturalized citizens. How do you propose to differentiate between those groups?
How do you suppose they are going to survive? There is not enough undeground economy jobs to feed them. Those who will become troublemakers will be arrested and deported.
I think the employment laws must be strict enough to make employers check with the INS and SSA the validity of the documents. This is the way it's done in most states at DMV offices. Reliance on the INS alone won't work, because the INS may have some chance of success only when the violations aren't on so massive scale as now.
I don't know what state you are in, but in most states they do check legal status thouroughly. There are states where like you say they only take a glance on the documentation presented and don't do cross-checks. Here in CA they will check with both INS and SSA via their own channels.
State employment laws? How can they when immigration matters are exclusively a federal concern? All the state does is prohibit "discrimination," reinforcing the EEOC regulations I wrote about above.
This is the way it's done in most states at DMV offices.
In California? I don't remember presenting proof of citizenship on renewal of my license. And illegals are getting licenses here.
Reliance on the INS alone won't work, because the INS may have some chance of success only when the violations aren't on so massive scale as now.
So what would you do? The Constitution makes immigration law and enforcement a Federal matter. The INS and the Feds used to take immigration law seriously. If they ever do so again (and I have my doubts if they ever will), it'll be because the will of the populace is so strident and so insistent about unrestricted immigration that they have to put the enforcement resources in the INS and other Federal agencies to do the job again. But I doubt the PC PW'd American populace is ever going to have the political will to do that. No, we'll just let America become another Lebanon or Yugoslavia before we do that.
I didnt' say "state". Federal.
In California? I don't remember presenting proof of citizenship on renewal of my license. And illegals are getting licenses here.
Yes, in California. They may know your status already, but you can call DMV and ask them what documents one needs to bring when applying for a license.
So what would you do? The Constitution makes immigration law and enforcement a Federal matter. The INS and the Feds used to take immigration law seriously.
I agree. But the situation where the INS can raid employers to catch illegals and at the same time the employer can plead ignorance is ridiculous. The law must be such that employers wouldn't WANT to hire illegals and the consequences of their doing so would be grave enough. But the employers must be given the opportunity to easily follow the law by giving them clear procedures and tools how to check legal status.
When the legal status check becomes clear and mandatory, there will be no way employers may become the target of the bogus "discrimination" charges.
The checks, need to take place way before a policeman is asking for license & registration. We need to control the borders physically to keep people from sneaking in. Plus those that apply legally to visit or whatever, need to be throughly scrutinized.
Then regarding those that are here already; we need to investigate their status as they show up on the radar screen for whatever reason. And, those that came in legally, we need to dedicate suffecient resources to track them, and see what they are up to.
But don't ask me a lawful legal natural citizen to "prove" my innocence.
At what point in time did simply being present in the United States of America become a matter of criminality?. As well, when did not having identification become a requirement?. You really want a police state don't you?.
---max
We'll have a police state if the enemy is allowed to stay. Try to board a plane now. We'll only get our freedom back when and if these foreigners are made to leave, otherwise there will soon be a National ID card. If they leave we wouldn't need one.
Can you be a little less vague?. I refuse to fly anywhere in the United States as long as the aircraft are undefended, which they still are.
Just how do you propose to make all the "foreigners" leave?.
How many foreigners have attacked you personally, and how did you defend yourself?.
Should we close down Universal Studios and Disney World since we won't be having any foreign tourists around?.
---max
We have an INS, they were supposed to do something from all the taxpayer money they confiscated from us, it won't be them, but the killing of Americans will continue until these enemy invaders are made to leave. You might think it's impossible but sending the English out wasn't so impossible for the American Revolutionaries but they didn't suffer from political correctness.
No, I don't. I've long been opposed to a national ID card. I am addressing what I consider to be a dichotomy in the posted article - a desire to get rid of illegal aliens and opposition to a national ID card.
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