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National Guard Troops Without Ammunition At LAX
AM Radio KABC Los Angeles | 10/29/01 | Joe Hadenuf

Posted on 10/29/2001 9:28:50 AM PST by Joe Hadenuf

It was just reported about 15 minutes ago on a talk show that is on now on Radio AM 790 Los Angeles that the National Guard troops at Los Angeles International Airport, (LAX) do not have ammunition in their weapons. I am not sure but I think they said it was the Mark and Alred talk show AM 790, I believe this is KABC.

If this is true, it means that our government is as serious about airport security as they are about our immigration "free for all".


TOPICS: Breaking News; News/Current Events
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To: Terrorista Nada
But they are not trained as security officers or LEOs. You don't ask an ObGyn to perform open-heart surgery. And the average infantry man is not trained for this sort of action, as well. It is not unheard of for regular army troops to stand watch with an unloaded weapon..........
121 posted on 10/29/2001 11:35:57 AM PST by tracer
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To: Joe Hadenuf
Here is what Hackworth said about it. This confirms that the Marines at Beirut were not "locked and loaded." To those who think that people like Boortz have compromised security by pointing this out, you may rest assured that our enemies already knew about this SOP.

In a lethal confrontation, there is hardly time to disengage the safety much less grab a mag, stick it in, rack the action, etc. As Hack says, it takes an extra second or two just to arm the rifle with a full mag in it. By then you are dead. What is a good career move by a commanding officer can be death for those who carry it out. (A terrorist attack -- who can stop that? An accidential discharge and a dead tourist -- there goes my retirement!) A soldier carrying a firearm which is not in a ready mode is dead man walking. I will not post here how various scenarios could go down, but rest assured the enemy has war-gamed them all. LET'S LOCK AND LOAD NOW

BY DAVID H. HACKWORTH

Shooting first and straight while on a battlefield or a security detail is a matter of life or death. That's why weapons training normally gets the highest priority in the U.S. military.

If you're slow on the draw, you're dead, and your side loses.

Just ask the Marine guard in Lebanon in 1983 who didn't shoot fast enough when a kamikaze driver rammed his terror truck through the gate. It took the leatherneck one full second to chamber a round, another second to flip his weapon off safety and fire. By that time, the truck had smacked into the Marine billet he was securing and exploded. The Rules of Engagement forbade this expert rifleman from being locked and loaded even though his unit was on high alert for just such an attack. And those two seconds he lost arming his weapon cost 241 American lives.

Lesson learned: An unloaded weapon is useless. A lesson we've unfortunately learned and relearned the hard way over and over again.

Recently, the Navy dedicated a memorial to the sailors who were aboard the USS Cole when it was savaged last year by a terrorist attack in the port of Aden. But even though the members of the security detail on the Cole were at their posts on high alert -- in an extremely dangerous port where they'd already been warned that a terrorist attack was highly probable -- not one of their weapons had a round in the chamber. The security detail gave the small craft that almost sank the Cole and killed 17 sailors a big, friendly America wave, and the terrorists waved back -- just before they rammed their human torpedo into the ship. Again, the Rules of Engagement stated no weapons would have a round in the chamber.

Not having a magazine in a weapon, even for a crackerjack marksman, adds at least two more seconds before he or she can get off a round. Four seconds is more than enough time to drive a 10,000-gallon gas tanker into a nuclear reactor, a high school, a chemical plant or some other tempting target.

Yet today, at virtually every U.S. military installation around the globe -- and now at most of our airports, which are secured by the Army National Guard -- the guys and gals manning the security details at exterior gates and other critical or sensitive areas, including ammo dumps and armories, are as impotent as the Marines were in Lebanon or the sailors in Yemen. They don't have a round in the chamber, and in most cases, they don't even have a magazine in their weapons. Yet America is at war, and we know that thousands of fanatics are out there ready to strike.

When I was 15-year-old soldier in Italy right after World War II, I "walked my post in a military manner" with a loaded M-1 rifle. My sergeant, captain, colonel and general trusted me, along with thousands of other young soldiers, not to shoot myself or anyone else who didn't deserve shooting.

But somewhere along the way that trust disappeared. In today's military, a leader makes one mistake and he or she is toast. So the brass do the big CYA thing to ensure that they don't get burned. As a result, uniformed MBA-types have made micromanagement a General Order. In a military where a soldier gets busted for drunken driving and his captain is threatened with relief, imagine what an accidental rifle discharge would bring.

Last week in Germany, where some guards were ordered to tape their rifles' magazine wells for safety, four-star Gen. Montgomery C. Meigs actually charged his colonels with checking on the guards and reporting back to him. A job the corporal of the guard used to do when careers weren't at stake.

The other key factor in the mix is that the troops -- less the Marine Corps and special units such as the Rangers -- haven't been getting the training time they need on the firing range to be fully competent with their individual weapons. Even though there are millions of bucks for higher headquarters' simulation war-game playing for military planners and the brass, nowhere near enough money has been allocated for putting holes in targets.

Will it take another USS Cole disaster before we allow the troops to lock and load?

http://www.hackworth.com/15oct01.html

122 posted on 10/29/2001 11:39:22 AM PST by Liberty Ship
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To: tracer
I flew through San Diego and Phila this weekend. Not being a gun person, I didn't notice if the guardsmen had ammo or not. They were basically assisting with crowd control in both airports. There appeared to be many people at the ticket counter that could have gone straight to the gate with their e-ticket receipts, causing unnecessary congestion and delays. I got through security and to the gate in both airports in less than 15 minutes.
123 posted on 10/29/2001 11:43:37 AM PST by littleleaguemom
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To: caddie
not an entirely bad idea
124 posted on 10/29/2001 11:46:47 AM PST by Benson_Carter
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To: Joe Hadenuf
And in other news, Gov. Davis has deployed from San Francisco the legendary All American Amazon Brigade in an attempt to stifle possible terrorist actions at the airports in California. The National Guard is relieved as they were only allowed to carry super-squirter water guns due to the non-violent nature of the deployment the Governor ordered.
125 posted on 10/29/2001 12:00:05 PM PST by Nuke'm Glowing
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Comment #126 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe Hadenuf
It looks like they are still suffering from idiotitous. They were out of ammunition at the start of the Rodney King shopping spree as well. They had to borrow some from Arizonia then.
127 posted on 10/29/2001 12:38:48 PM PST by hsszionist
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To: Joe Hadenuf
"National Guard Troops Without Ammunition At LAX".........

TOO MANY FOOLS in too many high places,

..........without leaders with a minimum level of common sense, there can be hope for the future of this nation. If we are to survive, Clintonian heads have got to roll enmass.

128 posted on 10/29/2001 12:40:59 PM PST by God_isa_Jew
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To: Terrorista Nada
I agree. However, my b/f is in the Air Guard and he has stated that none of the guard at the airports get live ammo although the guns themselves are the real deal.
129 posted on 10/29/2001 1:14:36 PM PST by BossLady
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To: Pearls Before Swine
I am serious! The HOW is thanks to our illustrious UNGOVERNOR, he's spending too much on electricity to pay for ammo.

Took 10 guns to the Liberty Belles "Belles, Bullets, and Barbeque" yesterday and shot twice that much out of all of them!

130 posted on 10/29/2001 1:19:24 PM PST by gc4nra
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To: Joe Hadenuf
It isn't the 1st time that American soldiers have been armed with empty weapons.
131 posted on 10/29/2001 1:19:35 PM PST by freefly
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To: tracer
Yes, I remember when I was in basic and they were teaching us how to stand guard we had our rifles, empty, with empty magazines. Other than that one time, we were locked and loaded whenever we were on guard.

The "philosophy" being that if we were attacked, the Cong wouldn't just wait for us to feel down to our magazine pouch, open the cover, grasp a magazine, pull the magazine out, insure we had it facing the right direction, insert and seat it, then chamber a round, then take the weapon off safety and put it in either semi-auto fire or auto-fire, then raise the weapon to a firing position, attempt to get a sight picture and then squeeze the trigger --- and while doing all of the above take cover and/or assume a prone firing position. I have to assume that a responsible public leader such as Grey Davis either 1) has inside information that terrorists, unlike the Cong, will stand around waiting while guardsmen do all of the above or 2) he figures the guard shouldn't have any more chance than he's giving us citizens in the even we are faced with mortal danger or the danger of great bodily harm.

It couldn't be that he's just a stupid, radical leftist slime-ball who should be tarred and feathered and run out of town on a rail for what he's done to this State.

132 posted on 10/29/2001 1:25:18 PM PST by sailor4321
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To: freefly
Well, you're right, of course. The Militia on Bunker Hill had empty weapons after the 3rd or 4th assault by the Redcoats. They did what presumably the Guard would do, they hauled a$$!
133 posted on 10/29/2001 1:35:51 PM PST by sailor4321
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To: adx
You state some very good points. I served in an ANG MP Co. in N.O.,La. and I can tell you that we ALWAYS had some ammo for our M-16s that the local police would offer to us. In the event that we were searched for ammo we were still very capable to offer some form of protection. Naturally, we would find a way to ensure that we would be able to preform our duties no matter what type of hinderence there was. Have a little more faith in the individual troop. They are willing to do the tasks at hand to the best of their ability. Head up. Shoulders back. Stand proud!
134 posted on 10/29/2001 1:50:18 PM PST by Ready2signup
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To: sailor4321
You are right on target, buds. And I can only pray for the patriotic members of the National Guard who are on the receiving end of this nonsense.

I still worry that they could be disarmed by tangos who wouldn't have a prayer of bringing their own long guns into an airport. One can only hope and pray that these troops have a well-armed overwatch in plain clothes standing by.

But then, that would be too much to ask and expect....

135 posted on 10/29/2001 1:51:15 PM PST by tracer
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To: FateAmenableToChange
I love Hicks' "it doesn't mean we're engaged or anything".
136 posted on 10/29/2001 2:14:49 PM PST by That Poppins Woman
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Comment #137 Removed by Moderator

To: dirtboy
"...it would be a lot better to have a couple of Guardsmen on each plane until we get a full compliment of Sky Marshalls."

Such a commonsense solution which takes care of half the threat - hijacking. The other is explosives in checked baggage.

138 posted on 10/29/2001 2:22:34 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: FateAmenableToChange
"..."get away from her, you bitch") from the best Vietnam War movie ever made."

Huh? That quote is from Aliens.

139 posted on 10/29/2001 2:34:12 PM PST by A Navy Vet
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To: A Navy Vet
The other is explosives in checked baggage.

Yep, and the FAA says they can't have this covered until 2005. Nonsense. Time to start breeding a bunch of beagles and getting them trained. It ain't perfect, but it's a vast improvement over doing nothing due to bureaucratic inertia.

140 posted on 10/29/2001 2:37:29 PM PST by dirtboy
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