Keep dreaming pal.
It's just gonna be FLIR and fire.
Posted on 10/22/2001 10:12:01 AM PDT by tallhappy
ISLAMABAD: Taliban commander-in-chief Jalaluddin Haqqani has claimed that the militia was "in touch" with China, which was assisting them in the war against the US.
Before leaving for Afghanistan after holding talks with Pakistani officials here, Haqqani, who is also the minister for frontier regions, told reporters "China is still assisting the Taliban in the war against the US".
He further said that the Afghan militia "continued to be in touch with Beijing." He, however, declined to divulge the nature and quantum of the assistance being provided by China.
Haqqani, whose visit to Islamabad raised eyebrows, said that China would react sharply in the longer run as the US would dig in Afghanistan.
Besides the Pakistan officials, he also met the leaders of the hardline pro-Taliban Pakistani religious leaders.
Haqqani said that China was an important neighbour to Afghanistan and had followed moderate policy towards the Taliban all along.
"It has never interfered in the internal affairs of Afghanistan and Taliban hold it in high esteem for this," he said.
Haqqani said that the US had not scored any noteworthy success in its three weeks of bombardment in Afghanistan.
"So far, the Taliban have lost around 25 fighters. Also a military helicopter and two passenger planes of Aryana Airlines have received minor damage in the US attacks," he added.
Haqqani said that the Taliban's all helicopters and planes were safe and no prominent commander had so far fallen victim to the US attacks.
He added that real war would begin when the US would land its troops on the soil of Afghanistan. "We are anxiously awaiting their entry into Afghanistan in order to make a graveyard for the US army."
"We have made all out preparations to engage Americans for a long time. We do not trust in the might of arms rather we believe in sacrificing our lives for the cause of Islam and honour of motherland," he further said.
"We ask the US to land its troops without any delay and then see as to how much dead bodies it would airlift daily," Haqqani said.
He said that the Taliban still considered Osama Bin Laden as their guest and a hero of Islam and they would never hand him over to any country come what may. ( PTI )
The Taliban of course spread a lot of lies.
Also it is being reported that the Chinese have installed a military communications system for the Taleban, not just a phone system.
Chinese Fighters Killed in US Strikes against Kahandar
20 October: DEBKAfile has learned from military sources in Dushanbe and Bishbek, capitals of Tajikistan and the Kyrgizstan respectively, that at least 15 Chinese fighting men on the side of the Taliban, were killed in last week?s US bombing over Kahandar and in a separate incident on the ground. This report as confirmed by Pakistani sources in Peshawar, who discovered the Chinese presence alongside the Taliban from their own intelligence reports on the death of the commander of Arab Afghan troops in Jalalabad, Basir al Masri, who was a senior aide to Osama Bin Laden and the Egyptian Islamic Jihad chief, Ayman al Zuweiri.
Al Masri appears to have been caught by an American bombardment, just as he was leaving Kahandar for Jalalabad after meeting Taliban leaders. They warned him as he left that US Special Force units were operating in the southern and western outskirts of the town. Because they thought the size of his bodyguard insufficient, they offered to a detail of their own men to see him safely past the danger zone. Among that armed escort were five Chinese fighters. A Special Forces unit waylaid the group and detonated explosive charges, one of which hit Abu Basir?s vehicle and a second the escort vehicles. Most of the escort was killed, including three of the Chinese guards. The next day, their bodies were carried into Kandahar.
Another 10 Chinese fighters died in US bombardments.
DEBKAfile?s sources have no doubt that the Chinese combatants fought in a Taliban unit ? and were not part of Osama bin Laden?s Al Qaeda or its associated Egyptian Jihad forces in Afghanistan. Neither organization admits non-Arab adherents ? certainly not as guards for its senior officers.
According to DEBKAfile?s intelligence sources the mutually beneficial Chinese-bin Laden relationship goes back some years. The British daily, Guardian, carries a report Saturday by John Hooper in Milan, claiming that three years ago, China paid bin Laden several million dollars for unexploded American cruise missiles left over from the US attack on his bases. Hooper quotes an alleged senior Al Qaida agent in Europe, whose account is contained in the transcript of a secretly taped conversation between two bin Laden adherents.
The Americans fired 75 missiles in the raid on bin Laden?s bases in Afghanistan, carried out on August 20, 1988, in reprisal for the terrorist strikes against US embassies in East Africa. Forty were found unexploded.
The conversation taped took place in Milan between a Libyan called Ben Heni - who was arrested in Munich last week and accused by the Italian prosecution of being the liaison officer between two Al Qaida cells in Frankfurt and Milan ? and a leader of the Italian cells, Sami Ben Khemmais Essid. The Italian police had bugged the flat.
According to the Guardian report, the two men confirmed bin Laden?s close ties with China and described how the huge sums the Chinese paid for the unexploded US missiles helped him finance his next three years of Al Qaida operations.
Hi flamefront! Sure they will; until they are in such position as to move West, and seize the Arabian oil fields for themselves? The open question is (for me at least): How "BIG" a hegemon does China wish to be at the end of the day? I think these folks are really "long-term thinkers." Heaven knows, their cultural memory goes back centuries, even millennia.... And they are very patient. Cheery thoughts, no? best, bb.
Keep dreaming pal.
It's just gonna be FLIR and fire.
Oh, puh-leeze.
They forgot the second half of that quote:
"But they are still infidels and will have to be eventually destroyed"
Discount it if you will, dirtboy. In fact, I hope you're right. Time is the mother of truth. best, bb.
He keeps changing his story.
Regards,
Get out a globe. See what it would take for the Chinese Army to go to the Persian Gulf.
Who's picking a fight? I just find the notion that the Chinese Army could manage to invade the Persian Gulf to be extremely ludicrous. That's a long, long, long, long ways across some very hostile territory. Hitler didn't have to go as far to the Causaus and it was much easier terrain.
To some degree, but with 911 it has been exagerated and distorted for propaganda purposes -- to make us say the exact thing you just said and I quote above.
Basically the problem has been over a refion of the PRC called Xinjiang, which means New Frontier, a traditionallt Muslim region populated by non-ethnic Chinese related to Turks.
They has their own nation called East Turkestan after the fall of the last emperor in 1911 and prior to the 1949 communist takeover. The communists then annexed East Turkestan. Their excuse was that the former Imperial regime had conquered the region so it was therefore Chinese territory.
The resistance to Chinese communist rule there has been almost exclusively a nationalist movement, not a religious movement. The Muslims in the region, called Uighurs, are not known for being particularly fndamentalist.
Recently though some Uighur elements most likley have associated with bin Laden and gone to Afghanistan for training. How much this represents a small portion of the Xinjiang rebels joining Jihad or al Qaeda, compared to al Qaeda usurping existing anticommunist resistance networks is hard to say.
Generally though the Xinjiang rebels have been more associated with Turkey and found refuge in exile there.
In recent years the communists have increased their suppression of these rebels and of the region's Muslims in general. This is in part due to some success on the part of the rebels. It has been a low level sporadic civil war.
The rebels have mainly attacked military and police institutions.
There have been recent evetns of terrorism, eg bombs on buses considered to be done by Uighur separatists.
Interestingly the ChiComs would deny these reports and many cases were reported as accidents rather than bombs. Now the communists are saying anyone against their rule is a terrorist with al Qaeda sponsorship.
My opinion is the ChiComs are playing up the relation and distorting what there is for their own propaganda purposes.
At the same time, I used to side more with the rebels, but, despite most being nationalist, not Jihadis, after 911 I would not support any of them because al Qaeda and Jihad is more powerfull and the ability of them to usurp a legitimate resistaqnce is too high.
But I don't for a minute believe the false picture painted by the communists who have done much more to support the Taliban than any rebels in Xinjiang.
The rebels in Xinjiang did not send high ranking officials to visit Mullah Omar and other Taliban officials like the ChiComs did last December. The rebels did not build a fiber optic communciations network for the Taliban that has defense capabilities, but the ChiComs did.
Basically, the Chinese communists regime can't be fully trusted as an ally yet. They can if they do certain things.
They need to renounce claim and threats of force on Taiwan. Such troublemaking is a "luxery" that cannot be afforded any more.
They need to take an active role in the military campaign. They need to allow us to base in their territory and allow flyover.
Those are the sort of things they have to do to actually become a real ally rather than a lip service public relations ally.
They've given no indication they are going to do any of it.
PRC has a rather lengthy border with Pakistan. The location of the Pak nukes is snuggled up tight in the Northeast corner -- cheek to jowl with said Chinese border. Afghanistan has a bit of a border with PRC. But I don't expect the Chinese to invade through there. (Or invade at all -- not subtle enuf.) They're playing a different game -- on my hypothesis, of course.
We know that PRC entered into a "friendship treaty" with Taliban on the day of the strikes. We also know that PRC has supplied military and communications infrastructure to Taliban; advanced, state-of-the-art air defense systems to IRAQ; they are "helping" Sudan to police the Sudanese oil fields; etc., etc. Therefore, we may feel justified in concluding that they are frankly aiding and abetting state-sponsors of terrorism.
As far as their own Muslim separatists are concerned, it is doubtful to me that PRC would "squish them" at a time when PRC is being so friendly to and supportive of fundamentalist Islamic regimes outside China.
Bear in mind China has no friends, only "interests." Muslims and Westerners alike are "barbarians" in the Chinese view. They plucked the U.S. for hard currency to modernize their military. They hate us as "imperialists" who constrain Chinese action in their own backyard. They have an interest in seeing the U.S. harried and hammered so as to weaken us -- and then PRC may find itself in a position to "break out." They are certainly helping our enemies -- some examples given above, plus Chinese troops serving with Taleban (positioned such that PRC does not appear to be the reason for their presence in the conflict); moral and financial support to terrorist regimes, etc.
U.S. is embroiled in horrendous difficulties that China may wish to see extended indefinitely -- to further weaken America militarily, economically and diplomatically. Jiang's statement of support (such as it was) for the United States as recently as two days ago was breathtaking for its noncommital tone: They wish to play "both sides against the middle" -- Islamic Fundies vs. U.S. They probably hope we kill each other off.
Here's the thing I truly worry about: If OBL had nukes, he would strike the U.S. China knows where OBL can get nukes: Pakistan. Do you think China would not help him acquire them if it had a chance -- without having to do it "openly???" (It's certainly not going to fork over any of its own. It'll maybe need them for later....)
Anyhoot, U.S. gets "cut down to size" by China's Fundie friends; she is now free to range around her own backyard -- in the South China Sea. Taiwan and Japan are left unprotected. Plus now China and several Fundamentalists states are "friends" now -- and just as China always treats her "friends," she would take advantage of that situation to increase her influence in the Arab world. And if PRC can find a way to do it -- and I think it can -- gain de facto, if not de jure, control over the oilfrields without firing a single shot. After the House of Saud is gone, and America is too weak to act, we have End Game.
So you think I'm nuts. Go read a couple threads -- especially this one: Prof. Yu on the Chinese Mind. (See Reply #57. Notice what Prof. Yu says about "crab-like movements." Read: Dialectical "science" applied to long-term power-projection strategy.)
Also this one: Unlimited War
Then tell me what you think. best -- bb. We also know
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