Posted on 10/19/2001 8:10:11 AM PDT by jbstrick
Campus protesters ignite U.S. flags
Friday, October 19, 2001
By PATRICK JOHNSON
AMHERST — Amherst College students were stunned moments after a pro-America rally involving more than 100 people ended yesterday when several protesters emerged from the crowd to set fire to a U.S. flag.
As the sounds of "God Bless America" continued through the public address system in front of the Keefe Campus Center, as many as 10 demonstrators doused two flags with lighter fluid and set them on fire.
Five members of the group then spread a larger flag on the ground and stood on it while chanting "This flag doesn't represent me; this flag doesn't represent us."
The crowd of more than 100 people, mostly Amherst College students who moments before rallied around the flag, stood in stunned silence as the same flag was desecrated.
"This is really upsetting to me," said Christopher Palacios, a sophomore from Miami.
Palacios, who said his parents fled Cuba in the 1960s to escape Fidel Castro, said, "It makes me sick when American kids say the American flag scares them."
The pro-America rally yesterday was organized by a new student group called Amherst Assembly for Patriotism.
The group formed in response to peace rallies at each of the Five Colleges in recent weeks as well as the controversial decision by the town of Amherst to limit flag displays downtown.
"Amherst is 25 square miles surrounded by reality," said Theodore Hertzberg, a sophomore from Long Island. "I'm relieved the rest of the country does not feel the same way."
The crowd had just finished a group recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance and was beginning to disperse when as many as 10 protesters came forward.
Most of those protesting the flag declined to be interviewed.
One who did, 19-year-old Dan Griffin of Minneapolis, Minn., said the protest sought to show that the United States is responsible for much of the pain and suffering in the world.
The United States has helped continue a spree of genocide that dates back to Columbus in 1492, he said.
"How people take it is how they take it," he said.
Griffin identified himself as a student but declined to say at which college. He said the others are from different area colleges but would not say which.
Hampshire College officials confirmed a student named Dan Griffin is registered.
The University of Massachusetts records show a Daniel Griffin was enrolled but he withdrew at the start of the semester.
Michael Flood, co-founder of the Amherst Assembly for Patriotism, said he found the actions of the protesters to be inappropriate, especially since he suspects none of them are from Amherst College.
"I believe they have a right to burn the flag, but this is inappropriate," he said.
Sophomore Nick Echelbarger from Seattle said the burning was free speech of the lowest form.
"It doesn't make a point. It's just poor taste," he said.
So, have you burned a U.S. flag and chanted, "This government doesn't represent me?" If so, then why? If not, then why not?
I would think that such a chant and/or actions would describe you and at least a few of your libertarian friends, such as Tex-oma.
I'm sure that there is a point to which you would agree it's aggression, but where is it? I'm sure you'd agree that a 30 year old male neighbor obsessively screaming insults at your 11 year old daughter every time she steps out of the house, often sending her into tears, is an act of aggression. I'm sure you'd pond on him if you saw it, or at least send him running back into his house.
What about the example that I mentioned of the stranger who started boasting in public about what he'd like to do to your wife in graphic detail, right if front of you both?
I think there are two key elements here that make this flag burning more an act of aggression than simply obnoxious protected speech.
First, the current war and the recent WTC attack multiplies the intensity of the flag burning's message. It's akin to using much stronger language. It's the difference between me remarking that I'd like to sleep with your wife and me boasting that I'd like to f* your wife in the a* until she squeals like the little slut that I know she is. The former is simply obnoxious and latter is clearly aggressive.
Second, it was brought to the opposition. There're endless opportunities to get exposure for flag burning, but bringing it to the opposition's rally is directed at a group. It's the difference between me telling a third person what I'd like to do to your wife and me telling you both directly. Again, it's the difference between me being "an unpleasant orifice of the human body" and me exercising a form of social dominance over you.
From what I read, I think that these two circumstances were working together that day to make the flag burning a sufficiently aggressive action to warrant a defensive response. I think it was a moral imperative.
Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LoanPalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)
Let's not get another thread shut down!
I'm not even gonna start. All I'm sayin' is: I like the way you think.
I had too much work to do today to jump into the fray.
My boss is going to Shanghai next week & I had a lot of stuff to get together for him.
Have a good weekend... CD
Same - I think some will and some won't. Some grow up early, and some take "the scenic route". {smile}
...My question, being a citzen, is this my flag, or, is this our flag? and I'm serious, so don't get me wrong, and think I'm being a smart ass.
...What do you think, and what is the truth?
Flag burners are making a statement of discontent at best and treason at worst. Their actions are evidence of, or better yet, self-incrimination of their attitude toward our way of life, that is in a Constitutional Republic under God.
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