Campus protesters ignite U.S. flags

MASSLIVE.COM ^ | TODAY | PATRICK JOHNSON

[JohnPaulJones]

I'm surprised that the students didn't start throwing things at them....

[A2J]

"They only oppose the US govt interfearing in the lives of foreigners. I oppose the US govt interfearing in the lives of anyone, including my fellow Americans."

So, have you burned a U.S. flag and chanted, "This government doesn't represent me?" If so, then why? If not, then why not?

I would think that such a chant and/or actions would describe you and at least a few of your libertarian friends, such as Tex-oma.

[elfman2]

I think that I understand your perspective. I think that the difference between us is where we believe speech becomes a form of harassment and therefore an aggressive action.

I'm sure that there is a point to which you would agree it's aggression, but where is it? I'm sure you'd agree that a 30 year old male neighbor obsessively screaming insults at your 11 year old daughter every time she steps out of the house, often sending her into tears, is an act of aggression. I'm sure you'd pond on him if you saw it, or at least send him running back into his house.

What about the example that I mentioned of the stranger who started boasting in public about what he'd like to do to your wife in graphic detail, right if front of you both?

I think there are two key elements here that make this flag burning more an act of aggression than simply obnoxious protected speech.

First, the current war and the recent WTC attack multiplies the intensity of the flag burning's message. It's akin to using much stronger language. It's the difference between me remarking that I'd like to sleep with your wife and me boasting that I'd like to f* your wife in the a* until she squeals like the little slut that I know she is. The former is simply obnoxious and latter is clearly aggressive.

Second, it was brought to the opposition. There're endless opportunities to get exposure for flag burning, but bringing it to the opposition's rally is directed at a group. It's the difference between me telling a third person what I'd like to do to your wife and me telling you both directly. Again, it's the difference between me being "an unpleasant orifice of the human body" and me exercising a form of social dominance over you.

From what I read, I think that these two circumstances were working together that day to make the flag burning a sufficiently aggressive action to warrant a defensive response. I think it was a moral imperative.

[LonePalm]

Flaming a$$holes.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LoanPalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[pocat]

Careful now...

Let's not get another thread shut down!

I'm not even gonna start. All I'm sayin' is: I like the way you think.

[The Right Stuff]

You can bet your sweet bippie that my kid would tromp one of those hairy would be hippies. Hey! Bippie, hippie, it rhymes. Must be something cosmic there.

[Constitution Day]

Speaking of which, you *really* ripped Demidog a new one on that thread you pinged me to ("he needed killin'!").

I had too much work to do today to jump into the fray.
My boss is going to Shanghai next week & I had a lot of stuff to get together for him.

Have a good weekend... CD

[sendtoscott]

So, have you burned a U.S. flag and chanted, "This government doesn't represent me?" If so, then why? If not, then why not?

So you have always thought your govt represents you? No matter what it did? Bill Clinton represented you to the world? You and your govt are one, no matter what? You seem to complain about the very idea of protest against any US govt action.

They don't represent me any more than the Berkeley City Council represents you. No matter what you think of the electoral process, I didn't get to vote for the vast majority of our govt any more than you got to vote for the Berkeley City Council.

[elfman2]

"..I hope that, someday, they grow up."

Same - I think some will and some won't. Some grow up early, and some take "the scenic route". {smile}

[gargoyle]

...I've weighed in on this a couple of times. I've burned the stars and stripes, if it is worn beyond repair, on June 13, at sunset, after I've lowered it, in private, and with respect. At sunrise, on June 14, I hoist a new "Old Glory".

...My question, being a citzen, is this my flag, or, is this our flag? and I'm serious, so don't get me wrong, and think I'm being a smart ass.

...What do you think, and what is the truth?

[rodeocowboy]

I listened to the link you provided on post number 10, what an awesome piece of imformation! Very educational. I knew most of the things on there, but finally I had some sort of a bibliography, if you will, of facts for when I talk to friends and acquaitances. Great link.

[ThomasMore]

If we consider ownership of a material good, then we can say the flag is "mine". However, this is not just a piece of clothe to display one's own views and ideology and culture; something personal (although it may hopefully represent our personal ideals). Old Glory is an icon of who we are and what we are as a community of Americans living in a Republic under a Constitution, Declared through Independence and reinforced by a Bill of Rights. This assumes that we share an allegiance to what it stands for. One nation, UNDER GOD, Indivisable..with Liberty and Justice for ALL. What, when and how you approach this icon affects all it represents and the beliefs it is based on.

Flag burners are making a statement of discontent at best and treason at worst. Their actions are evidence of, or better yet, self-incrimination of their attitude toward our way of life, that is in a Constitutional Republic under God.