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To: pegleg
(Reggie) Just how is Mary to lead us to Christ? Certainly we aren't to pray to Mary, are we?

I’ll give you the short answer. Follow her advice, "Do whatever he tells you." (Jn 2:5).

Let's look at John 2:

1 On the third day there was a marriage at Cana in Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there;
2 Jesus also was invited to the marriage, with his disciples.
3 When the wine failed, the mother of Jesus said to him, "They have no wine."
4 And Jesus said to her, "O woman, what have you to do with me? My hour has not yet come."
5 His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."

Does this sound like Mary asked Jesus to perform a miracle or, for that matter, to take any action at all, or does it sound like she was telling him "they have no wine"?

His mother deferred to Jesus, not the reverse as you wish to imagine. Her "Do whatever he tells you" is her contrite way of acknowledging Jesus as her leader.
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(Reggie) 1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,

That seems pretty clear. Only Jesus. No one else. What am I missing?

It would be helpful if you read the 1st 4 verses of 1 Timothy 2:

1 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men,
2 for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I don’t see where these verses exclude the idea of other people praying for us, whether in heaven or on earth. I would say our prayers become efficacious because of Christ's Mediatorship since we pray in his name.

Of course, Paul is urging Timothy that prayers be offered for people who are currently living. It isn't even hinted that anyone but living people are asked to pray for living people. You chose a very poor example to "prove" your point. In this example, Paul isn't even suggesting prayers for the dead, let alone to the dead.
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(Reggie) Where in Scripture is it shown that Mary has a role beyond that of mother?

How about
“I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed; she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel." (Genisis 3:15)

Do you care to expound on this? This is a role for Mary?

Genesis 3:16 RSV To the woman he said, "I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you."

Do you still claim this is about Mary??
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Or

“Woman, behold thy son. After that, he saith to the disciple: Behold thy mother. And from that hour, the disciple took her to his own" (John 19:25-27).


Are you forgetting, or unaware, that Jesus's brothers didn't believe in him until the ressurection? Are you forgetting, or unaware, that John (the "one whom Jesus loved") was the only apostle present at the crucifiction? Jesus loved John, John was there, his mother was there, his brothers not only weren't there but they didn't believe in him . It was a natural for Jesus to ask John to take care of his mother.

A question for you: Where was Peter through all this?
37,488 posted on 03/29/2002 6:14:50 AM PST by OLD REGGIE
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To: OLD REGGIE
Does this sound like Mary asked Jesus to perform a miracle or, for that matter, to take any action at all, or does it sound like she was telling him "they have no wine"?

At Mary’s request Jesus performed his first miracle.

His mother deferred to Jesus, not the reverse as you wish to imagine.

Yes Mary deferred to Jesus. I don’t imagine this in the reverse. Why would you think I do?

Her "Do whatever he tells you" is her contrite way of acknowledging Jesus as her leader.

I never said anything different. Do you not think this is sound advice?

Of course, Paul is urging Timothy that prayers be offered for people who are currently living. It isn't even hinted that anyone but living people are asked to pray for living people.

If this is your interpretation for “all men” I disagree.

Do you care to expound on this? This is a role for Mary?

The Catholic teaching is this verse prophetically foreshadows Mary and Jesus.

Do you still claim this is about Mary??

Don’t remember quoting Genesis 3:16.

Are you forgetting, or unaware, that Jesus's brothers didn't believe in him until the ressurection?

The only “brothers” that Jesus had were fellow believers.

Are you forgetting, or unaware, that John (the "one whom Jesus loved") was the only apostle present at the crucifiction?

I know this.

Jesus loved John, John was there, his mother was there, his brothers not only weren't there but they didn't believe in him . It was a natural for Jesus to ask John to take care of his mother.

You are missing the significance of this passage. Jesus told John to “Behold thy mother”. Unless you believe Mary was John’s mother, why would he say this?

A question for you: Where was Peter through all this?

Probably in the upper room with the rest of the Apostles.

37,504 posted on 03/29/2002 7:35:02 AM PST by pegleg
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