Posted on 10/05/2001 12:38:56 PM PDT by Israel
Sorry, your information is outdated. Please, do not rely on the IDF propoganda machine as a factual source.
" Finkelstein focuses on one aspect of Morris’ historical scholarship. While Morris reveals political and military leaders, he steadfastly - but according to Finkelstein falsely - maintains that “the Arab exodus was not the result of a general, premeditated Yishuv (Jewish) policy” (quoted on p.64 of Image and Reality). The Morris thesis is that the mass exodus of Arabs from their major population centers all over present-day Israel was not the result of a well-formulated plan to get rid of as many Arabs as possible, as quickly as possible. Rather, Morris maintains that Arab flight was a by-product of war. As in all wars “things happen!” Finkelstein shows that Morris’ obfuscation of the widely-known Plan D’s real objective is a falsification of the facts, plain and simple."
From Book Review- Image and Reality of the Israel-Palestine Conflict
Please do not believe in nor spread myths, much that you'd like to believe them.
LOL. Yes "read between the lines". And it also helps if you have that tinfoil hat on when you do.
And that "conversation" between Bush and Sharon - that supposed conversation - comes from one source - and was SUPPOSEDLY spoken two weeks ago - and as Ari said - Israel "has no better friend than Bush."
I resent you calling Ari Fleischer a liar in his RECENT statement about Israel.
Calling Bush's man a liar is despicable. You are not a Bushie.
Amnesty International?
Ah yes. The folks who are always hectoring Bush about the death penalty, the folks who were against The Gulf War, pro gun control...yeah what they say matters.
You know very well about Norman Finklestein.
The Leftist fellow who accuses Jews of exploting the Holocaust as HE writes books about the Holocaust to line HIS pockets.
And that site you linked to is bogus....anti-Israel and pro Arab. All you wingnuts look to the same loonbirds to bolter your points.
You: >Sorry, your information is outdated. Please, do not rely on the IDF propoganda machine as a factual source.
My information is "outdated" because some Marxist like Norman Finkelstein disagrees with it? The fact remains that, in 1948, the new State of Israel was attacked by the armies of four Arab nations. There was a war going on when the Palestinians fled and everyone expected Israel to be destroyed. You continually refuse to acknowledge that fact.
And, by the way, that link you posted for the review of Finkelstein's book is an Arab sponsored website. Not exactly a balanced view.
The word "murder" implies the killing of an innocent person who is going about his business. Israel has not been doing that. The PA sends out children to attack Israelis and then uses their deaths as a publicity stunt when the Israelis are forced to shoot them. They learned that tactic from the Viet Cong.
attacked hundreds of mainland Chinese citizens and killed them without trials, razed homes and farms and started to move Taiwan citizens into mainland territories? Not long!
In the minds of the Arabs, there is no Israel. All of Israel belongs to them, as they see it. If they would have accepted the 1948 borders of Israel as recognized by the UN, the Palestinians would have a state and there would be no war.
The hue and cry from CNN and the New York Times, and other communist loving media would be horrendous!
I find it interesting that you complain about the "communist loving" media, yet you base all of your information on a communist like Norman Finkelstein.
I made quite a few references to many sources, documenting my position. You, however, have only reduced yourself to labeling.
You're lying again. You quoted only Israel Shamir, a traitor, who writes Arab Nazi propaganda. The Nazi-style propaganda that I copied from his site (to which you linked me), and reprinted below, is full of the propaganda of "Palestinian" Nazis: "Palestine" is a euphemism not for the territories, but ALL of Israel.
Likewise, the "Palestinian" right of return is designed to annihilate Israel. Shamir rewrites Israeli history, such that the Jews never existed, and the "Palestinians," who were fabricated only during the past fifty years, are an eternal people. The Jews are turned into Europeans (whites? Christians?), and the Arabs are turned into ... the Jews! This myth has the flavor too of black supremacist propaganda, in which Jews are turned into gentiles, and black gentiles are turned into Jews.
Could you please come up with some counters to the attrocities quoted in post #108 or the uncalled-for use of lethal force as documented by Amnesty International.
You did not cite AI. You just threw it in, after the fact, to make your assertions seem honest to FReepers who haven't seen the post (#66) I responded to, which was based entirely on Shamir. (Now you add one more reference (Finkelstein) that wasn't in the post I responded to, but no matter. More PLO propaganda. The stuff you post has as little to do with events in Israel, as Hitler's claims that he was defending against Polish attack had to do with the history of The War.)
For the better part of the last century, Arabs have been butchering Jews for the crime of being Jews, and trying again and again and again, to effect a Holocaust, and I'm supposed to provide you iwth "counters" to PLO propaganda? You sound like a more conceited version of the Buchananites, who harrumphed that the Jews had "poisoned [Arab] wells" last year.
Besides, if AI had existed 60 years ago, it would have published reports, charging America with "uncalled-for use of lethal force" in The War against the Nazis, Italy, and Japan, while giving our enemies a pass.
It's so much easier to slap labels on people than to counter documented cases, isn't it?
What documented cases? And if the label sticks, you use it! Your posts leave no doubt, that you support the destruction of Israel, which is inseparable from Holocaust II. At this late date, your "humanitarian" pretenses will impress no one who isn't already a confirmed anti-Semite, bis auf die Knochen.
Israel Shamir
Why I Support the Return of the Palestinians
Palestine is not a dead object, it is a living country. Palestinians are her soul. Palestine is what Palestinians are re-creating in real time, in the same way that France is what the French create and re-create every day. It is a vast confusion of mind, to presume one can love France and abhor French, as what kind of France would exist without the French soul. Only silly tourists from rich countries, pestered by beggars, prefer to stay in reclusive posh hotels where they can enjoy the country without encountering the natives. It is like loving a beautiful lady but hating her character and her very essence. To love a country and wish away her inhabitants is the kind of romance that can only appeal to those who have a passion for necrophilia.
The late Russian thinker Lev Gumilev described a country as a symbiosis of people and landscape. Palestine and Palestinians are inseparable, the peasants and their olives and springs of water and the mountains and the domes of the ancestral sepulchres on the hill-tops need each other and have grown to complement each other.
The Palestinians are not an obscure mean folk. They created the Star of Ghassul, wrote the Bible, built the temples of Jerusalem and Garizim, the palaces of Jericho and Samaria, the churches of the Holy Sepulchre and Nativity, the mosques of Haram a-Sharif, the harbours of Caesarea and Akka, the castles of Monfort and Belvoir. They walked with Jesus, defeated Napoleon and bravely fought at Karameh. In their veins, the blood of Aegean warriors, Bene Israel, David's heroes, the first Apostles of Christ and Companions of the Prophet, of Arab riders, Norman Crusaders and Turkmen chieftains blended in the unique composition. Its spark did not run out: the poetry of Mahmud Darwish, the wisdom of Edward Said, the perfect olive oil, the fervour of prayers and the valiant courage of intifada prove it.
Without the Palestinians, Palestine dies. Her rivers run poisoned water, the sources dry out, the hills and valleys are disfigured, her fields are worked by imported Chinese, while her sons are imprisoned in ghetto. The idea of a separate Jewish state collapsed. During last ten years, the mad policies of Israeli government imported over a million of Romanians, Russians, Ukrainians, Thai and African laborers. Some of them claim Jewish descent: Peruvian tribes, Indians from Assam and the endless refugees from the Soviet Union moved in. Now the Jewish Agency plans to import a Lembda tribe from the South Africa, in order to ensure the Jewish character of the state. Paradoxically, those who still bear some part of the Jewish traditions are isolated in the Jewish state, as late Dr Yeshayahu Leibovich or imprisoned as the Moroccan Jewish Rabbi Arie Der'i.
The fantasy of the Jewish ingathering has collided with the reality. We must end the delusion. Let the sons and daughters of Palestine come back and rebuild Suba and Kakun, Jaffa and Akka. Instead of consecrating the Green Line, let us erase it and live together, the children of Palestine, of first settlers, of Moroccans and Russians.
We should live in one state, not only because of the blatant failure of Oslo. The very idea of partition is wrong. We can follow the example of New Zealand, where the European incomers live together with the native Maori, the example of Mandela's South Africa, the example of Caribbean, where children of Spanish settlers, African slaves and native Amerindians blended into the beautiful new race. Let us tear up our Declarations of false Independence and write a new one, of mutual dependence and love.
The Jews have been there for as long as the Muslims have - longer, in fact.
Japan
Apples and Oranges. If North Dakota were Japanese & they attacked us from there, I guarantee we would annex it.
-bc
Aren't middle easterners all considered "white" in race?
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