Sharon to US: Don't turn Israel into Czechoslovakia

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has instructed the IDF to use whatever means necessary to defend the country, he told reporters tonight.

He made his comments after three Israelis were killed this afternoon in Afula, and a terror attack overnight in Jerusalem in which two people were injured.

He also urged the United States not to turn its back on Israel in favor of the Arab states in the way Europe ignored Czechoslovakia in 1938. The results of that move were calamitous, he said.

There is considerable concern in Jerusalem that the Bush administration is allowing terrorist states to join the war on terrorism.

Expel who? Arab irregulars? Members of the Arab Legion? Arab killers? I'm looking at the very passage and the question is asked in the context of a war and firefights. The only quotation attributed to him is "Expel them." And this is in the context of two towns where firefights had already taken place. If you're fighting for you life you'd expel terrorists, Arab forces, as well as locations and sources which would serve as potential fifth columns.

This is typical of how you play around with the facts. But I play fair and I'll show you how. Above I noted most Arabs took off without being expelled. Take a look up there when I discussed this matter. You likely missed it as you usually miss the subtle points of discussion. I have said numerous times that in the context of the Jews fighting for their existence against the initial Arab assaults in their rejection of 181 and the later five country Arab ganging up against the nascent State of Israel that the Yishuv and Israel likely expelled about 20% or so of the 600,000 Arabs who left. That's based on Morris's book and other writings. War is hell. But the Jews weren't stupid. They learned the hard way what a "fifth column" mean't.

Expel who? Arab irregulars? Members of the Arab Legion?

Expel "the Arabs." Any Arabs. All Arabs.

Stop equivocating. Stop playing silly little semantic games with a two-word statement.

This is typical of how you ~~play around with the facts~~ parse words

War is hell. But the Jews weren't stupid. They learned the hard way what a "fifth column" mean't.

So you explicitly say they weren't expelled, then say if they were expelled, it's because "war is hell" and they were a "fifth column." Typical Israel-first reasoning.

There is ample evidence to show that many remained, tending their agriculture, and it was the Jews who decided they had to leave.

I used to go to a deli which was owned by a middle-aged Palestinian Christian woman who was expelled in the late 1940's. I'll take her word over yours and the Israeli apologist industry any day.

Expel "the Arabs." Any Arabs. All Arabs.

That's not what the passage says. Moroever, the reference is to TWO TOWNS. You fraudulently used the passage to make it appear that that was a GENERAL POLICY. And that is an unequivocal falsehood.

Stop equivocating. Stop playing silly little semantic games with a two-word statement.

I deal with facts. You deal in lies and distortions as I have shown above.

So you explicitly say they weren't expelled, then say if they were expelled, it's because "war is hell" and they were a "fifth column." Typical Israel-first reasoning.

Read up there dimwit where I said MAJORITY left without being expelled. READ instead of farting through your mouth.

There is ample evidence to show that many remained, tending their agriculture, and it was the Jews who decided they had to
leave.

There is ample evidence to show that the MAJORITY left because the war was initiated by their ARAB brethren and they left in response to that WAR and the calls of their ARAB leadership as well (you like to selectively use MORRIS but when he's got something you don't like you conveniently ignore him. Figures).

I used to go to a deli which was owned by a middle-aged Palestinian Christian woman who was expelled in the late 1940's. I'll take her word over yours and the Israeli apologist industry any day.

HAHAHA. I spoke to boooglyboogly and he said blah, blah,blah. I really like your objective anecdotal evidence it's really convincing (NOT).

Moroever, the reference is to TWO TOWNS.

Two towns at a time. Oops, now it's three - that are recorded.

In the case of Nazareth, however, Ben-Gurion only arrived after its capture. On seeing so many Arabs, he asked, "Why are there so many Arabs? Why didn't you expel them?"(108)

Now it's four recorded

Ben-Gurion paid a visit to Haifa, which was then in its final stage of capture by the Jews. He asked for a meeting with Abba Hushi who was the central figure of Mapai in Haifa. On being told that Hushi was busy trying to persuade Arabs in the city to remain, Ben--Gurion asked, "Doesn't he have anything more important to do?"(109)

I deal with facts.

The facts are there are millions of disposessed people as the consequence of Zionist actions.

You deal with propaganda that the US has been listening to for 50 years, and will listen to less and less in the future.

You fraudulently used the passage to make it appear that that was a GENERAL POLICY

You fraudently claim the passage is an exception, not a rule. There are hundreds of thousands of people who tell of similar events.

I really like your objective anecdotal evidence it's really convincing

Yes, anyone with an eyewitness account of Israeli misbehavior is "anecdotal." The problem is, with every yeare there are more and more "aneccotes" with similar stories to tell.

The reference was to TWO towns. In other words YOU misused a reference, that is you FRAUDULENTLY took the REFERENCE out of CONTEXT to make it APPEAR THAT COMMENT BY BEN-GURION referred to a GENERAL POLICY. YOU LIED and are now exposed for MISUSING THAT quote.

The facts are there are millions of disposessed people as the consequence of Zionist actions.

600,000 becomes "millions". Only in your myth math world. In the meantime where is you yapping about the 800,000 Jews from Arab Islamic lands many who left because the Arab Islamics made it intollerable to live there any more? Nothing. Who cares about your concerns either then.

You fraudently claim the passage is an exception, not a rule. There are hundreds of thousands of people who tell of similar
events.

Garbage. I said the MAJORITY left without being expelled. And it wasn't a policy to expel. MORRIS STATES CATEGORICALLY THAT THERE WAS NO POLICY TO EXPEL THE ARABS. The 20% happened as a result of the ARAB aggressions and the war. It was an ad hoc process as the war developed in particular locations. KARSH on the other hand states there was not even any ad hoc process which developed. OR is it that you prefer to ignore MORRIS when he doesn't suite your agenda.

Yes, anyone with an eyewitness account of Israeli misbehavior is "anecdotal." The problem is, with every yeare there are more and more "aneccotes" with similar stories to tell.

You are a source which I and most readers of this board ought, and don't have, any confidence in.

There is just to much evidence to the contrary to say that any more than 20% of the Palestinians who fled Israel were forced out.

The first wave was apx 30,000 of the most affluent, who anticipated the coming war and could very easily move to safer ground.

For your claim that one Israeli said "expel them" I can quote several that show the opposite. For example, The Assembly of Palestine Jewry issued this appeal on October 2, 1947:

We will do everything in our power to maintain peace, and establish a cooperation gainful to both [Jews and Arabs]. It is now, here and now, from Jerusalem itself, that a call must go out to the Arab nations to join forces with Jewry and the destined Jewish State and work shoulder to shoulder for our common good, for the peace and progress of sovereign equals.

On November 30, the day after the UN partition vote, the Jewish Agency announced: "The main theme behind the spontaneous celebrations we are witnessing today is our community's desire to seek peace and its determination to achieve fruitful cooperation with the Arabs...."

Israel's Proclamation of Independence, issued May 14, 1948, also invited the Palestinians to remain in their homes and become equal citizens in the new state:

In the midst of wanton aggression, we yet call upon the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve the ways of peace and play their part in the development of the State, on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its bodies and institutions....We extend our hand in peace and neighborliness to all the neighboring states and their peoples, and invite them to cooperate with the independent Jewish nation for the common good of all. But independent evidence also exists. For example, here are some contemporaneous news reports about the events:

"Villages were frequently abandoned even before they were threatened by the progress of war" (London Daily Mail, August 12, 1948).

"The first of our fifth column consists of those who abandon their houses and businesses and go to live elsewhere....At the first signs of trouble they take to their heels to escape sharing the burden of struggle." (Ash Sha'ab, Jan 30, 1948)

As Sarih (March 30, 1948) excoriated Arab villagers near Tel Aviv for "bringing down disgrace on us all by 'abandoning the villages."

A British police report from Haifa, dated April 26, 1948 stated that "every effort is being made by the Jews to persuade the Arab populace to stay and carry on with their normal lives, to get their shops and businesses open and to be assured that their lives and interests will be safe." In fact, David Ben-Gurion had sent Golda Meir to Haifa to try to persuade the Arabs to stay, but she was unable to convince them because of their fear of being judged traitors to the Arab cause. By the end of the battle, more than 50,000 Palestinians had left.

Tens of thousands of Arab men, women and children fled toward the eastern outskirts of the city in cars, trucks, carts, and afoot in a desperate attempt to reach Arab territory until the Jews captured Rushmiya Bridge toward Samaria and Northern Palestine and cut them off. Thousands rushed every available craft, even rowboats, along the waterfront, to escape by sea toward Acre (New York Times, April 23, 1948). On April 23, 1948, Jamal Husseini, the chairman of the Palestine Higher Committee, told the UN Security Council that instead of accepting the Haganah's truce offer, the Arabs "preferred to abandon their homes, their belongings, and everything they possessed in the world and leave the town."

All the evidence suggest that the vast majority of Palestinians fled of their own accord. It is nothing short of revisionism to suggest otherwise if you are fair enough to simply examine the contemporaneous evidence.

What did posting the USS Liberty have to do with the discussion here?

It's the anti-American, terrorist supporters' fallback to make their anti-Americanism sound patriotic. But it won't wash anymore either. Like monkeys, they must be SHOWN new tricks or they simply keep mimicking the same ones over and over.

Re: the Liberty and the Pueblo. Yeah, tell us about how the NSA deliberately cut the ship off from normal command and control without telling the Navy in order to play stupid spook games. Notice that the USN no longer operates that kind of ship--they told the NSA to go have an improper relationship with themselves. That won't be an issue this time around.

Posted on 10/04/2001 05:31:59 PDT by Poohbah

To: Poohbah

These are the facts. Why haven't they appeared from some of you in the know types on the rotten Librty threads that permeated FR blaming Israel for what the NSA did? The NSA never even informed the Commander of the Liberty what they were doing or why...let alone the crew. They boarded in secret and set up shop restricting any crew members from entering their lair. They knew exactly what they were doing, but the innocent crew did not. And the NSA never has come clean, preferring to allow the entire world to blame Israel for an unprovoked attack. They allowed the Pueblo's crew to be imprisoned for their (NSA's) incompetence and then blamed the Captain for *confessing*. Jeez!!!

161 Posted on 10/04/2001 06:05:10 PDT by NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh

[ To: NixNatAVanG InDaBurgh

It's in several of the books--and acknowledged in the various investigations--that when the spooks came aboard, the first thing that happened was the skipper getting told that any signal that came in over the military communications network was to be considered for information only, and that orders could only travel over certain Top Secret channels.

164 Posted on 10/04/2001 08:48:49 PDT by Poohbah

To: SKYDRIFTER

I did mention the Liberty. You just chose to ignore it. Apparently the NSA gets a pass on criminal activity in your world.

165 Posted on 10/04/2001 09:16:02 PDT by Poohbah

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