Sun Tzu (SunZi), Chap 1

Project Gutenberg ^ | Circa 500 BC, translated 1910 | Sun Tzu (translated by Lionel Giles)

[Clive]

This is chapter 1 of the thirteen chapters of the Sun Tzu.

[Clive]

-

[Republic of Texas]

Keep 'em coming, great stuff.

[mukraker]

Great timing. The peaceniks are out again, preaching tolerance and education to understand why the terrorists hit us. We need to understand Islam and the Afghani people, we're being told.

Problem is, these peaceniks do not understand how wars are fought, or how they begin. Sun Tzu's writings are a great lesson in the basic psychology of warfare.

Keep it up!

[cmsgop]

My Shih-Tzu Reads Sun-Tzu.


"THE ART OF GRABBING A STEAK OFF YOUR OWNERS COFFEE TABLE"

[Political Junkie Too]

Sun Tzu was referring to leaving the enemy an escape route.

He said that a cornered enemy has no choice but to fight to the death, but a surrounded enemey left with an "out" will take it.

He also felt that the successful general will outmaneuver the opposing general and be able to decide where the battle will be fought. Sun Tzu felt that by doing this, the successful general will win the battle before it is fought.

-PJ

[Demosthenes]

Wise words, but even Sun-Tzu could not anticipate an enemy without a will to live, or more importantly, a willingness to suicide. He assumes they will retreat when given an opening, but we cannot assume that any longer. They must be wiped out.

[Redcloak]

Here is another translation...

Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Way (Tao) to survival or extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed.
...
Therefore, structure it according to [the following] five factors, evaluate it comparatively through estimations, and seek out its true nature. The first is termed the Tao, the second Heaven, the third Earth, the fourth generals, and the fifth the laws [for military organization and discipline].
The Tao causes the people to be fully in accord with the ruler. [Thus] they will die with him; they will live with him; they will live with him and not fear danger.
Heaven encompasses yin and yang, cold and heat, and the constraints of the seasons.
Earth encompasses far or near, difficult or easy, expansive or confined, fatal or tenable terrain.
The general encompasses wisdom, credibility, benevolence, courage, and strictness.
The laws [for military organization and discipline] encompass organization and regulations, the Tao of command, and the management of logistics.
There are no generals who have not heard of these five. Those who understand them will be victorious; those who do not understand them will not be victorious.
...
Thus when making a comparative evaluation through estimations, seeking out its true nature, ask:

Which ruler has the Tao?
Which general has greater ability?
Who has gained [the advantages of] Heaven and Earth?
Whose laws and orders are more thoroughly implemented?
Whose forces are stronger?
Whose officers and troops are better trained?
Whose rewards and punishments are clearer?

From these I will know victory and defeat!

...
If a general follows my [methods for] estimation and you employ him, he will certainly be victorious and should be retained. If a general does not follow my [method for] estimation and you employ him, he will certainly be defeated, so dismiss him.

...

After estimating the advantages in accord with what you have heard, put it into effect with strategic power (shin) supplemented by field tactics that respond to external factors. As for strategic power, [it is] controlling the tactical imbalance of power (ch'uan) in accord with the gains to be realized.

...

Warfare is the Way (Tao) of deception. Thus although [you are] capable, display incapability. When committed to employing your forces, feign inactivity. When [your objective] is nearby, make it appear as if distant; when far away, create the illusion of being nearby.

...

Display profits to entice them. Crate disorder [in their forces] and take them

If they are substantial, prepare for them; if they are strong, avoid them.

If they are angry, perturb them; be deferential to foster their arrogance.

If they are rested, force them to exert themselves.

If they are united, cause them to be separated.

Attack where they are unprepared.

Go forth where they will not expect it.

These are the ways military strategists are victorious. They cannot be spoken of in advance.

...

Before the engagement, one who determines in the ancestral temple that he will be victorious has found that the majority of factors are in his favor. Before the engagement on who determines in the ancestral temple that he will not be victorious has found few factors are in his favor.

If one who fins that the majority of factors favor him will be victorious while one who has found few factors favor him will be defeated, what about someone who finds no factors in his favor?

If I observe it from this perspective, victory and defeat will be apparent.

[Clive]

Thank you. Whose translation is it?

My preference is the translation by J.H. Huang. I obtained an oversize paperback version at Indigo in Toronto, published by Quill

It is much more readable than the Giles translation, but it is formatted as a double column with the translation of the Sun Tzu text on the right and Huang's interpretations on the left, and my knowledge of HTML is not up to the job.

Western translations seem to have trouble with the Tao character and with Yin and Yang.

I find that reading several different translations is most helpful.

So far, I prefer the Huang and the Giles translations but I also have a neat little shirt pocket size translation by Thomas Cleary.

[Clive]

The bin Laden cadre may have a willingness to suicide, but they depend on people less fanatical to give them a safe haven and provide logistics, money and intelligence.

Also, I doubt that their command and control have the same suicidal fervour that they have instilled in their shock troops.

We have dealt with kamakazi before.

[Clive]

I forgot to set out the Chapter Title.

The chapter is entitled "Laying Plans" in the Giles translation above.

The Huang translation titles it "Surveying"

The Cleary translation calls it "Strategic Assessments"

[Clive]

Here is chapter 2 of the Sun Tzu.

[John Locke]

Sun Tzu is a great guy, but those old Romans also knew a thing or two about warfare. I especially like this exchange, between the invading Hannibal and the Roman general Quintus Fabius Maximus, who prosecuted the ultimately victorious strategy of avoiding battle and wearing the enemy down.

Hannibal: If you are such a great general, come and fight me.

Fabius: No, if you are such a great general, force me to fight against my will.

I suspect George Bush is familiar with this principle, too.

[Clive]

-

[Psycho_Bunny]

"All warfare is based on deception."

That's always been my favorite line from the Art of War.

[JMJ333]

bttt

[FReethesheeples]

bump for an almost ancient Classic.

Also, Von Clausewitz, etc.

[super175]

Selections from the Art of War