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Conservatives are fond of preaching the importance ...
The Future of Freedom Foundation ^ | September 27, 2001 | Jacob G. Hornberger

Posted on 09/28/2001 7:45:14 AM PDT by sendtoscott

Conservatives are fond of preaching the importance of taking "individual responsibility" for one's actions and beliefs. But when you ask them whether they're willing to take responsibility for the robberies and muggings that their beloved decades-long war on drugs have produced, they always and inevitably respond with, "Oh, no. We don't intend our policies to result in those things and therefore we're not responsible for them. Only robbers and muggers, with their lack of respect for liberty and private property, are responsible for their actions and beliefs."

Today, when you ask conservatives whether they're willing to take responsibility for their beloved decades-long foreign-aid program and interventionist foreign policy that have produced so much enmity, hatred, and perverse consequences for our country, their response is, not surprisingly, the same: "Oh, no. We don't intend our policies to result in those things and therefore we're not responsible for them. Only terrorists, with their lack of respect for liberty and private property, are responsible for their actions."

Question for conservatives: With respect to welfare programs, do you still feel that good intentions don't matter and that advocates of the decades-long war on poverty should take responsibility for its destructive consequences, or do you now feel that only the food-stamp mother in the grocery-store line is responsible for her actions and beliefs?


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To: billbears
Booze + pot = bad driving, therefore make pot a crime and keep booze legal. Makes sense to me.
101 posted on 09/28/2001 12:27:07 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: headsonpikes
Adults do not need their parent's permission to do whatsoever they want to. The whiney cries for drug legalization are exactly that: children asking for permission from Daddy state. I say too bad. Go ahead and do whatever you want to, but be prepared to accept the consequences of your actions. Constitutional laws which discourage unneeded suffering in no way thwart anyone's free will or liberties or rights.
102 posted on 09/28/2001 12:32:05 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: sendtoscott
No if you would bother reading the report(which I imagine you didn't)

booze+pot=bad driving
booze in too high a level(no restraint)=bad driving
pot at any level=bad driving

What are you going to do? Sell joints in a package that have a warning 'don't operate heavy equipment'? Oh, I'm sure those that argue for the legalization of marijuana would just follow those words< /sarcasm>

103 posted on 09/28/2001 12:35:54 PM PDT by billbears
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To: Richard Axtell
I suppose yes, if I refrain from using force on someone else to make them behave the way I want them to behave, then I'm not responsible for what they do to themselves. People (outside of drug use) harm themselves all the time. Am I responsible for unwed motherhood because I'm not demanding that fornication be made illegal?

Or would it just be easier to pretend that none of this will happen, despite generations of clear evidence resulting from re-legalized alcohol abuse,

Like I told the other guy, then ban alcohol. Put up or shut up.
104 posted on 09/28/2001 12:36:13 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: billbears
Marijuana, even in low to moderate doses, negatively affects driving performance in real situations. While previous research on alcohol effects alone show that alcohol at BACs around .10 is far more impairing than low or moderate THC doses alone, marijuana does impair driving performance. Drivers would be less than normally able to avoid collisions if confronted with the sudden need for evasive action. The effect of combining moderate doses of alcohol and moderate doses of marijuana resulted in a dramatic performance decrement and levels of impairment, as great as observed when at 0.14 BAC alone.

They can hardly go two sentences without having to contradict themselves. You have been had, sir. Read what it actually says. When they get honest, they admit its the alcohol that causes problems. A regular pot smoker is not impaired. DOT does not even report "wrecks caused by marijuana" because a) they cant distinguish between other factors or pot and b) because you dont know if they are high. "Illegal drugs" are reported to be the cause of very few traffic accidents. Check that with DOT.

Most every casual pot smoker will tell you that it does not impair routine type activities. If you look into studies that "show" pot impairs you, I promise you will find that the subject was either a) not a normanl pot smoker b) was given a very unusually high dose or c) was given a task that was not normal, and one they would never take on. Its been said many times, tell me ehat result you want, and I will conduct a study that shows that result.

105 posted on 09/28/2001 12:38:18 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: billbears
No if you would bother reading the report(which I imagine you didn't)

I read your quote from the report. I'm sorry for giving you enough credit to assume that you quoted the relevant part.

I'm not going to read an entire report that you bring up just to suit you.

Besides, can't you just limit the law to driving while under the influence instead of all usage of it? Nobody drives in their living room.
106 posted on 09/28/2001 12:40:26 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: sendtoscott
Like I told the other guy, then ban alcohol. Put up or shut up.
Perhaps you are the one to shut up, scott. The owner of this forum you are squatting on is not in favor of drug legalization, or having anarchists use his forum to advance their twisted agendas.
107 posted on 09/28/2001 12:42:50 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: sendtoscott
You are ludicrous.
108 posted on 09/28/2001 12:43:13 PM PDT by BurkeanCyclist
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To: billbears
What are you going to do? Sell joints in a package that have a warning 'don't operate heavy equipment'? Oh, I'm sure those that argue for the legalization of marijuana would just follow those words< /sarcasm>

Are you so ignorant that you cant even comprehend what you are saying??? You have absolutely no idea how many people are driving while on drugs right now, when they are "illegal". To think their sale and distributioin would work any differently than alcohol is childish and lacks any sound reasoning. To imply that those who wish to see and end to the WOD wish for "drugs" to be treated as candy is silly, and you know how disingenuous you are.

Your silly little snipit from a DOT report does not even say what you claim it does. Those idiots know damn well that it does not impair one like alcohol does. Pot does not substantially hurt motor functions. Thats a fact, jack. Take your government backed lies somewhere else.

109 posted on 09/28/2001 12:45:24 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: Cultural Jihad
My point was that alcohol is a drug that can be abused, and can harm users, families, society, etc. To be consistent, why ban other drugs and keep that one legal?
110 posted on 09/28/2001 12:46:51 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: sendtoscott
My point was that alcohol is a drug that can be abused, and can harm users, families, society, etc. To be consistent, why ban other drugs and keep that one legal?
Try raising that issue up at smirkingmonkey.org or bartcop.edu, where other moral-liberals hang out.
111 posted on 09/28/2001 12:48:40 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Try raising that issue up at smirkingmonkey.org or bartcop.edu, where other moral-liberals hang out.

Does that mean you cannot justify treating pot and booze differently?
112 posted on 09/28/2001 12:49:37 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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To: sendtoscott
Besides, can't you just limit the law to driving while under the influence instead of all usage of it? Nobody drives in their living room.

BUT MOMMY, MAKE THOSE PEOPLE STOP SMOKING MARIJUANA.....

Don't these WOD types sound like a little brat who cant stand to see his friend playing with a toy he does not have?

Logic, where's the logic.(Dont answer that, cuz I know they have none). They dont really care about the honest truth about the affects of "drugs", they just dont want people doing them becasue they said so.

113 posted on 09/28/2001 12:51:21 PM PDT by FreeTally
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To: FreeTally
...they just dont want people doing them becasue [sic] they said so.
Your parents have spoken. As the whiney poster said, only conservatives can allow drug abuse. We just veto the whiney cries of the moral-liberals by ignoring their temper tantrums.
115 posted on 09/28/2001 12:56:13 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
"Constitutional laws which discourage unneeded suffering in no way thwart anyone's free will or liberties or rights."

Why yes, yes they do. Which suffering is needed and which is unneeded?
116 posted on 09/28/2001 12:56:22 PM PDT by gjenkins
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To: FreeTally
A nation full of Buddists or Hindus would not be the society Christian Republicans want for the USA. A nation of pot smokers would not be the society Christian Republicans want for the USA.

Why they will admit they cannot use govt violence to prevent the first (which, if you think about it, results in more people going to Hell for eternity), but its OK to use violence to prevent the second (which only hurts you here during your three score and ten) is beyond me.
117 posted on 09/28/2001 12:56:23 PM PDT by sendtoscott
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Comment #118 Removed by Moderator

To: NAMMARINE
Hey I voted for one...once.
119 posted on 09/28/2001 1:02:43 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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Comment #120 Removed by Moderator


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