[AppyPappy]

Summary: We don't know so we will speculate and present the speculation as fact.

Weird.

[RaceBannon]

bump

[gatorman]

. . . "This applies to the Arab Conquest, says al-Rawandi, because for some two hundred years the Arab conquerors were a minority amongst a non-Moslem majority. For al-Rawandi, Islam is an invention for the purpose of providing a religious justification for Arab Imperialism. The Conquest is the reason and explanation for Islam, not the other way around." . . .

Fiction and Fact from gatorman's Almanac:

1) Islam in Arabic means to "submit". After Mohammed's death began the conquest of what was left of the old Byzantine Christian Empire. The vanquished had to submit to Islam or were put to the sword. Mosques were built upon the destroyed ruins of Christian churches and places of worship to eradicate that culture.

2) Muslims believe that Mohammed was the prophet of God (Allah) as Christ was the prophet of God to the Christians and Abraham the prophet of God to the Jews. However, at the time of Mohammed . . . Islam was a heresy of both religions (what)? ? ?

What If:

There suddenly was an American terrorist group by, let's say, the name of "The Minutemen". And, these Minutemen terrorists threatened any Islamic country by blowing up Mecca or the Temple Mount if any more acts of war were waged on Americans anywhere in the world? Would that get anyone's attention? Just daydreaming, again.

[a merkin]

Yes. A search of all the national bookstore chains probably won't yield you one volume of objective criticism of the Qur'an or early Islamic history. After years of working in the Middle East, I would come home on vacation looking for some serious scholarship as a antidote to the pap that everyone is fed who lives and works there. You won't find it on the "Islam" shelf in the religion section of any major book dealer even in their outlets in major cities in NY or DC.

Ibn Warraq's site at the Institute for the Secularization of Islamic Society is worth visiting and has a lot of very informative links. Here's a quote from the flyleaf of one of his books:"

"Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Oreint that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that on can render him."

-E. Renan

[traditionalist]

Very interesting. BUMP.

[Ann Archy]

What a fantastic article!!! Thanks for posting it!

[Junior]

It is curious, therefore, that there seems to have been so little serious scholarly research of the historical evidence for how Islam came to be.

The same could be said of the founding of Christianity; what research has been done is resoundingly denounced by those with a vested interest in the status quo ...

[TigerLikesRooster]

Religion is based on myth. If you chip away enough myth, religion dies. This is a serious mission creep. Now he wants to undermine all strands of Islam. The Old and New Testament are also vulnerable to the same kind of criticism

[TigerLikesRooster]

Religion is based on myth. If you chip away enough myth, religion dies. This is a serious mission creep. Now he wants to undermine all strands of Islam. The Old and New Testament are also vulnerable to the same kind of criticism

[AmericanCheeseFood]

The Koran teaches that the sun revolves around the earth .

A lie within more lies is still a lie even if it's taught as truth .

Cheese .

[Solon]

In her book, Meccan Trade and the Rise of Islam, Dr. Crone demonstrates that Islam did not originate in Mecca.

An absolutley fascinating article and unfortunately, Dr. Crone's book is out of print and the local library doesn't carry it.

[StriperSniper]

More from Dr. Wheeler: None Dare Call It Fascism

None of the links work anymore, but the whole article is posted at #20.

If anybody has a new link please post on that thread. Also if anyone knows where to find more from Dr. Wheeler, I would love a ping.

[gatorman]

For any Freepers interested in learning more about the Koran and the rise of Islam if you follow this link it may answer many of your questions - What is The Koran

NOTE: You will not find a lot of literature on the Koran because the Koran is the Word of God made text, and questioning its sanctity or authority is thus considered an outright attack on Islam -- as Salman Rushdie knows all too well.

FReegards . . .

[lucy1]

Thanks for the interesting article. It shed a lot of light on the subject. One thing thing that is curious is that I sometimes hear of Christians converting to Islam. One never hears of Muslims converting to Christianity or anything else (at least I never did).I had a Muslim friend from North Africa. He talked to me a lot about his country and his people. He once told me that his mother had learned Spanish in a class that was being taught by Catholic nuns. Well, maybe it was sewing in this case. Anyway, I am guessing that the Catholic church and other churches do charity work in various countries, and classes are just one of the things that they provide. He said his mother enjoyed it very much and like one of the nuns in particular. I asked if Christians doing charity work ever tried to teach Christian beliefs to any of them. His response was "no" and he said that no Muslim would be willing to listen because their beliefs were too strong. No,not any Muslim. Never That says a lot.

[neutrino]

Good article!

Al-Rawandi concludes that the Sira, the life of Mohammed in Mecca and Medina is a myth, a "baseless fiction." This is the conclusion of a substantial number of serious academic historians working on Islamic Studies today. They include Mohammed Ibn al-Warraq, Mohammed Ibn al-Rawandi, John Wansbrough, Kenneth Cragg, Patricia Crone, Michael Cook, John Burton, Andrew Rippin, Julian Baldick, Gerald Hawting, and Suliman Bashear. Yet they and their research are virtually unknown.

Islam a myth - now that says it all.

[janus]

Here's a pretty good site re' Islam.

http://www.campus.northpark.edu/history/WebChron/Islam/Islam.html

[Vigilanteman]

Long article, but excellent read. The author makes perfect sense.

[OK]

Bump.

[OK]

Bump

[Chick-with-a-brain]

This is a terrific article. Thanks for posting it.

The author makes some wonderful points. Like, American Arabs are condemning the terrorist atrosities, but they should prove their position with actions, by helping to turn over the terrorists that are living in this country and in their communities.

Although the author's credentials are impressive, I'm not sure how much firsthand experience she's had with Islam and/or Muslims. For one thing, she didn't get the 5 pillars correct. One of them is to fast during the month of Rhamadan each year. Also, she thinks that Muslims can read the koran like some read the Bible, taking some passages as fact and others as nice stories, but not literally.

Muslims would NEVER do this. They are required by the koran to take it as literal. In fact, they only pray in Arabic (even Indonesian, American, European, etc. Muslims who don't even speak Arabic) because the words might get changed in translation if they pray in another language. Also, if they print a Koran in another language, it must be with the original Arabic next to it. They say they believe in Jesus and the Bible, but when inconsistencies are pointed out to them they say the translation of the Bible is wrong because the original translation has been lost. The Koran is correct, literal and untranslated, according to them. They consider it a miracle because Mohammed was illiterate and he brought a book to this world.