Canadian pilots unwilling to carry guns

rediff.com ^ | September 26 2001 | Ajit Jain in Toronto

[AM2000]

Canada's commercial airlines pilots are unwilling to carry any firearms with them on board the plane.

They say they are pilots and not gunfighters and therefore they wouldn't carry firearms in their cockpits.

Air Canada Pilots Association, comprising of 3,600 members said despite support from the US-based Air Line Pilots Association, they have now been forced to consider ways of defending 'the cockpit at all costs against attackers', that they 'are not keen on the idea' of carrying arms in the cockpit.

"In a word, no, it's not our position that Air Canada pilots be armed," said Peter foster, ACPA expert on safety and security.

"What are you going to do, turn a cockpit into an armed fortress? .... And in an emergency the pilot is supposed to be flying the plane, not fighting a battle," he added.

Foster suggested that the Canadian government should consider sending trained officers on board the planes in case the threat of suicide hijackers is great enough to warrant armed protection on planes.

"If a security threat is felt by our authorities to be so serious as to require armed presence on aircraft then, by all means, the government can make the decision of providing armed escorts on aircraft," he added.

Informed sources said Canadian government has already started putting on board flight armed marshals, and it could soon be extended to all flights within Canada and out of the country.

The Canadian Pilots Association continues to reject the idea of letting its members carry guns because of the dangers of weapons on planes.

"What would happen if a pilot was relieved of those weapons by the terrorists? What happens if the weapon discharges and it punctures the pressurised aircraft?" asked CPA's chairman, Captain Raymond Hall.

Canadian Transport Minister David Collenette echoing the sentiments of the pilots said, "We're really not moving in the direction of having armed personnel in any guise on airplanes."

Collenette has, however, already ordered that cockpit would be locked as soon as the plane doors are closed and will be opened only after plane exit doors are opened.

[cajungirl]

Actually, I have been wondering. Wouldn't it be better to have armed skymarshals on board. After all, the pilot does have to pilot doesn't he? This is sort of like driving with kids who are rambunctious. You need a spouse to make wide sweeps into the back seat while you drive. Or at least that is my experience. Maybe arming the stewardesses or stewards would be better. I don't think these pilots are cowardly. Flame me if you wish.

[RaginRak]

Whatta ya expect from a country that chose commie Treadeau and inept Cretin as prime ministers. All I can say is... I wouldn't wanna be flying a Canadian jet in the near future. They will probably leave their cockpit doors open also.

[AeWingnut]

We still need to invade Canada.
If our gubment would stay out of the way
the Freeper's could do it
Who's with me?!?

[RogueIsland]

"What happens if the weapon discharges and it punctures the pressurised aircraft?" asked CPA's chairman, Captain Raymond Hall.

Uh, Ray? Weapons don't "discharge". They are discharged. Subtle but very important distinction. The mean, bad, nasty gun won't accidentally put a hole in your nice shiny airplane unless you are stupid or careless with it. I guess you think a firearm is far more difficult to safely own and operate than a passenger jet. Perhaps you shouldn't be in such a position of authority if that's the case.

[wcbtinman]

Actually, I agree with the premise that pilots should fly the damn plane.

But these are the same idiots that totally disarmed their citizens/passengers. And that is criminal IMHO.

[Husker24]

This is stupid, there are more than one pilot on the airplane so one can fly and one can resist. As for "the pilots should be flying and not gunfighting" its pretty hard to fly a plane when your throat has been slit.

[cajungirl]

Well, it is obvious that someone on board should be armed,,just seems to me the pilot may be busy during the time that the arms need to be used. And he has his back to the plane. Wouldn't someone in the cabin do better with the arms,,,that seems to be common sense to me. Someone riding shotgun who can watch the damn cabin. I mean don't pilots like turn knobs, pull down levers, watch out the window, watch the gas gauge?

[Polybius]

"What are you going to do, turn a cockpit into an armed fortress? .... And in an emergency the pilot is supposed to be flying the plane, not fighting a battle," he added.

Then again, flying a plane is impossible after your carotid arteries have been severed by a box cutter blade.

These wimps cringe at turning the cockpit into "an armed fortreess" as if turning the cockpit into the nerve center of a terrorist weapon of mass destruction is a better alternative.

[San Jacinto]

Top Five Reasons Canadian Pilots Will Not Carry Guns:

5. A pilot might be mentally unstable and should not be trusted with something so dangerous as a gun.

4. What if the gun snuck out of its holster while the pilot was busy and shot someone?

3. A flight atttendant might see a gun in the pilot's pocket and mistakenly believe he is sexually aroused, resulting in a case of sexual harrassment.

2. Recognizing an old friend, a passenger might say, "HI, Jack!", and be shot on the spot.

AND THE NUMBER ONE REASON CANADIAN PILOTS WON'T CARRY GUNS:

1. PILOTS MIGHT HIJACK THEMSELVES TO CUBA!

[lavaroise]

SO with an armed government agent and an unarmed pilot, who the heck then becomes in charge of the flight? If it is the pilot then the pilot should be armed and trained. If it is the armed agent, then the agent should know how to fly the airplane. In other words, we need armed pilots. I don't get what is wrong with an armed kerosene missile pilot. The airforces do it, why not the strategic civilian forces for the sake of continuity of our economy.

[RightWinger]

They say they are pilots and not gunfighters...

So, if your skillet catches on fire, you won't grab the fire extinguisher to put it out????
After all, you're a pilot, not a fireman.

Idiot!

[cajungirl]

Well I propose we pick out four people on each flight who volunteer and know how to use arms to guard the flight. And I also propose that any arabic male or female be locked into their seats after being given a depend underwear and not be allowed to stand up. My husband thinks we should all be locked in our seats and released on request by an armed stewardess should we need to pee.

[Walkingfeather]

Geez what is with these far northern areas..... They must just sit inside all winter and think of the new secular pias montra to be heralded in the spring..... what a bunch of p*ssy's

[Proud Canadian]

I have been reading this forum regularly for some time now, and have never felt the need to contribute. I agree with the posts often, disagree from time to time, but I generally respected the quality of debate. But this was too much.

I, like every Canadians, love my country as much as you Americans love yours. It is my home, and I am proud to be a part of it. My country has its weaknesses, and I grudgingly accept it, and while trying to do something about it. But I would NEVER consider becoming an American.

Yes, our military is a little weak, and would not likely fare well against that of the United States. But as a country of 30 million, there is likely nothing that we could do to fend off 300 million Americans. The government has certainly reduced military spending to a level below which most of us would like, but we still re elected them. Why? Because we accepted their vision for our country.

Yes, our healthcare system may seem like “Hillarycare” to you, but we would never allow a child with cancer to die simply because his father lacked the means to pay for the surgery. We have the notion that the poor might actually be deserving of quality care, even if they don’t have a job. Judging from the posts here, the typical attitude is if you can’t pay, tough s**t. Maybe you can live with that. I couldn’t.

And no, we are not armed to the teeth up here, but we also don’t have 16 year olds walking through high schools gunning down their classmates. You criticize our perceived lack of freedom, but what I see is the opposite. We think that a 20 year old deserves the right to choose if he wants a beer. You apparently don’t. Our government will let you have sex with however you want, whether or not society at large agrees. And we will not throw someone in jail for smoking a plant they grew in their backyard.

Our military is small, but as a member of it, and after having worked with many American soldiers, would say that it is composed of, as a whole, the finest soldiers in the world. We truly earn medals, as you will never see a Canadian with a “Good Conduct Medal” or “Cold War Medal”. Outstanding service is the norm, not an exception deserving of recognition. We have a proud military history, and we must not forget that Canada was fighting Hitler two years before the United States was goaded into action. Then again, we decided not to use our military to carpet bomb Vietnamese civilians or slaughter plains Indians.

We are proud of who we are, not a “country of vaginas”, to quote one of your more enlightened readers. We may be displeased with the government from time to time, but have never resorted to blowing up an office building with a fertilizer bomb. I feel safe on our streets at night, even though I don’t carry a concealed weapon. This is a fine place to be, so vent your steam, but try to make a bit of sense, and remember who your friends are.

Take Care eh.

[cajungirl]

I love Canadians. When my kids traveled the world in their late teens, they told people they were canadian because everyone says canadians are so nice. As a matter a fact when my daughter was in southern europe with a girlfried, the girls were harassed by men until a group of canadian guys took them under their wing and went everywhere with them. They visited us in the states and were magnificent young men. Now, we don't let kids die here for lack of insurance. The hospitals pay the freight or medicaid does. We have a quite large safety net for the poor here. What we do not have is a big net for the working who sometimes wont buy insurance ,,it is optional here,,,or who wont find a way to pay what they can if they will. I have never seen a kid or adult go untreated unless they bore a responsibilty for it. The law in most states is that hospitals have a duty to treat patients who appear regardless of ability to pay. But we could debate our systems for hours. I for one do not criticize the canadians for pilots not wanting guns or for the election not to have a big military. You all don't need one as long as we are your neighbor. BTW why won't you all let us in, I hear it is hard for mericans to go to live in Canada.

[TERMINATTOR]

Any Canadian flight may well be a bomb headed for one or our cities. Maybe they don't care, but we do. I guess our Air Force has to consider any Canadian aircraft entering U.S. airspace a terrorist attack, and take appropriate measures.

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Thank you for flying Liberty Airlines
Have a safe flight.

To arms, to arms, the terrorists are coming!

America's Militia wants YOU!

Nine out of ten Americans will fight to keep George W. Bush in the white house, and Osama bin Laden out!

Congress has provided (Article I - Section. 8, U.S. Constitution) the Militia with the means to arm themselves: CMP (Civilian Markmenship Program).
Bible quotes in favor of annihilating jihadists
Poll: bin Laden's skull can be best used as an ....

Molon Labe !

[TERMINATTOR]

Any Canadian flight may well be a bomb headed for one or our cities. Maybe they don't care, but we do. I guess our Air Force has to consider any Canadian aircraft entering U.S. airspace a terrorist attack, and take appropriate measures.

"A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed." - Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution

Thank you for flying Liberty Airlines
Have a safe flight.

To arms, to arms, the terrorists are coming!

America's Militia wants YOU!

Nine out of ten Americans will fight to keep George W. Bush in the white house, and Osama bin Laden out!

Congress has provided (Article I - Section. 8, U.S. Constitution) the Militia with the means to arm themselves: CMP (Civilian Markmenship Program).
Bible quotes in favor of annihilating jihadists
Poll: bin Laden's skull can be best used as an ....

Molon Labe !

[rockfish59]

yeah, let 'em subdue them with duct tape!!

[lepton]

Who's with me?!?

Talk to Lazamataz. He's already been organizing.