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To: damian5
Damian5: You may know history, but you're selective in its use. During World War II, in the USA the coal miners and steel workers went on strike, although strikes were illegal. Therefore, using your fatuous criteria, the US must be a communist state. Also, you failed to mention the following history: New Zealand declared war against Nazi Germany before the UK did. New Zealand was in WWII two years before the US was. New Zealand lost a great percentage of its soldiers than any other Allied country did in WWII, with the exception of the Soviet Union. Rommel judged New Zealand's Maori soldiers to be the most effective soliders in the world. New Zealand armed forces served with Americans in Korea, Vietnam, and the Gulf. New Zealand soldiers trained American soldiers in jungle warfare during Vietnam. If you can't get your facts straight, go back to your regular activity of masturbating quietly in a corner somewhere.
125 posted on 09/20/2001 8:57:39 PM PDT by kiwiexpat (Selective record of history)
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To: kiwiexpat
Wow! So many different points:

The origional topic appears to have been a misunderstanding.
We certainly thank you for your pledges of political, inteligence and military support. As the scope of this long, hard war against terrorism expands beyond it's initial stages, you will almost certainly be asked for help. You see, this isn't a war against one country, but a war against terrorism itself - wherever it might try to form a base. Terrorists are mobile; they will go wherever they think they will be safe. The world must persue them and assure that there is no safe place. That's why this war is going to involve all the countries of the world that beleive in freedom and have the backbone to fight for it. Your expertise in jungle fighting will be a welcome asset in the jungles of the south Philipines and thoughout southeast asia.

As for the dockworkers strike; there are always those people who try to use a crisis for the advancement of their own agendas. Whether it's dockworkers striking in WW2 or the racists who killed an Indian businessman in Texas last week, there will always be sub-humans. It says nothing except that you are human.

As for your immegration policies; I happen to have studied the demographics of Polynesia. Most of Polynesia is desperately poor. Like the US having to have immegration quotas from Mexico to avoid being overwhelmed by migrants seeking a better life, NZ has to do the same thing with regard to Polynesia. No doubt, you regret the neccessity as much as we, but you do what you have to do to survive. I can't fault you for that. My understanding of NZ history with regard to the Maoris is basically that NZ has done a better job of integrating natives and colonists equitably than most other countries. Not perfect, mind you! Not even close. But, considering the dismal record of treatment the majority of indigenous peoples have received, NZ ranks above average.

As for the treaty; the facts are unpleasant, but unambiguous: You refused to honor your obligations under the treaty. That means you were not expelled, you chose to withdraw. You declared to the world,"We do not care enough about the freedom of any other country enough to risk our lives and our homes for them." That is what a "nuclear free" policy means. It means you were willing to say, "If you conquer Europe, or Korea, or Japan, we won't stop you. In return we ask that you not hurt us." You may not like it being stated so bluntly, but it is a fact: all the other countries of the alliance put themselves in harms way in mutual defense of each other's freedoms. NZ refused to do that.
I actually remember when it happened. I was saddened but not surprised. Saddened because an act of such selfish cowardice seemed at odds with NZ's past history. But unsurprised as I knew what kind of propaganda had been dumped on you. Remember this was...what....1986 or so? The late Reagan years. The press had spent the past six years telling everyone that "Ronnie Ray-Gun" was gonna destroy the world in a blaze of nuclear fire! You better run! You better hide! Even cities and counties in the US were declaring themselves "nuclear free" in the media induced frenzy and stupidity. And our media, liberal as it was, was positively right-wing compared to the European media - which is very much like your own (a fact which may explain the recent "misinterpetation" of the PMs words? Wishful thinking?) No doubt, there was a fair amount of internal politics involved as well. I don't pretend to keep up on the specifics of NZ politics, but I do recall that socialist parties were very prominent in most parlimentary democracies at that time. I imagine they did a very good job of making a betrayal of the free world seem a noble and proud act, didn't they? They one thing socialists are good at is straining at gnats and swallowing camels. My favorite is the greed thing: His greed is bad because he wants to keep what he earns, but your greed is good because you want to take what he has. Why? Because he's GREEDY! Gotta love doublethink.
But I digress. The point is; you expelled yourselves from the alliance. Don't, however, take this as a condemnation. The history of New Zealanders show they are basically a brave and level headed people. One mistake doesn't define a whole people. We have all made mistakes; sometimes from fear or greed, and sometimes just out of ignorance or arrogance. It's the nature of a state composed of humans that it will be prone to human error on occassion. I have faith that NZ will realize that that policy was a mistake and change it...probably before very long. I think a lot of illusions are going to be shattered before long and a lot of changes in attitudes are gonna take place throughout the world. The illusion that NZ was an island safe behind it's barrier of passivism and non-involvement was badly bruised already by the troubles spreading through Indonesia and the civil war and terrorism in the Philipines. Suddenly wars weren't something you sent people off to fight somewhere else, suddenly they were on the doorstep... and NZ wasn't helping someone else, she was carrying the ball herself! That wasn't what the passifists promised was it? And, of course, now that you've gotten sucked in and starting making enemies, you've begun the process of making yourselves a target for terrorism too. The terrorists would call you "occupiers" for being in "their" country. "Exploiters" because you are obvously wealthier than they are. And "repressors" because you stop them from shooting the people they want to shoot. Do you seriously doubt that that is coming? Remeber operation "feed the people"?
I suspect NZ brief flirtation with isolationism and passifism is just about over. And good riddence. It never really fit their character anyway. In this war you can't "opt out of the nuclear madness". What are you gonna do, declare yourself a terrorism free zone? Refuse to let US planes land? Opt out of the terrorism madness? See how silly it sounds?

The whole world just changed. Welcome back to the firing line. We missed you.

145 posted on 09/21/2001 1:34:52 AM PDT by Capt Phoenix
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