Posted on 09/18/2001 6:41:29 AM PDT by Pokey78
Edited on 09/03/2002 4:49:19 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]
At the moment we are talking big, but the big stick is nowhere to be seen. I have to agree with Pat, that there is absolutely nothing these thirdworlders have that would draw us into the russian vietnam, and logistics was certainly on the side of the russians, but will surely not be on ours. Cheap oil seemed to be the reason for the gulf war, it won't be a good reason for the next one. Not when we have failed to develop our own available sources, and continue with the open door imigration policy. JMHO
No. But to pretend that there are not negative consequences from withdrawing from foreign alliances and activity is either naive or stupid. I think one of the major causes of our current economic downturn is rising energy costs. Should we cease to have a role in Middle East policy, we could easily see results which would change the entire way we live. Isolationsism could impact our lives for the worse far more than this supposed "Empire building" has.
And I think it is oversimplification to the extreme to say that this happened solely because of our role in the Middle East (i.e. - we're friends with Israel). Radical Muslims hate capitalism. They hate democracy. They hate people who aren't radical Muslims. And a withdrawal will not be seen as "for our good." But rather as cowardice. That won't bother you. But when terrorists smell cowardice, that's blood in the water.
Some good points.
America isn't a target because of any "meddling". We are a target because our culture is the dominate culture on earth,and they hate our culture. If we had been foolish enough to have elected this looney-tunes and followed his insane isolationist policies,the only thing that would have changed would be that we would be facing this fight against terrorism all alone. No other countries cooperating with permission to cross their airspaces,no shared intelligence,no joint military action,etc,etc,etc.
GO PAT,GO! Back into the closet where you have been hiding.
Stop and ask yourself a question? WHY?
Why does an armed, fanatical group exist to do grevious harm to the United States?
It seems that we are arguing over two theories as to why.
Theory One espoused by the neocons and assorted other bomb them all types is that Osama bin Laden and other Islamic Fundamentalists hate Americian culture in general. In fact, they hate it so much they are willing to die to eradicate it from the face of the earth.
Theory Two espoused here by Pat Buchanan and elsewhere by libertarians and paleos is that Islamic Fundamentalism's hatred for the U.S. is linked to American intervention in Islamic homelands. Specific incidents of military aggression by the U.S. against Islamic peoples and by a decidedly pro-Israel tilt in our foreign policy are the cause and the goal is to get the U.S. out of Islamic territory.
So, where do you stand? And be careful when you answer.
If you back theory one, think about what the war aims of the U.S. would be. They could be nothing short of the complete detruction of anyone and anything which holds the anti-American viewpoint among Islamicists.
Let's use some rough arithmatic for illustrative purposes. Say 800 milliom Moslems in the world and 1% of them hold Theory One views. That's 8 million people. Congratulations, you are now number two on the all-time genocidal list just ahead of Hitler but still way behind Uncle Joe.
If you back theory two, you can still exact retribution for the crime against humanity commited last Tuesday (eye for and eye and all) but refrain from a clash of civilization slaughter on a scale unsen in human history.
Strangely the tragedy hasn't prevented the anti-Pats from taking their shots.
While we are at it,let's not forget that Pat and the Patsies want to reduce our military to nothing more than a reserve self-defense force. If this idiot had been elected,our military would now be looking back on "the good old days" when Bubba bin Bombing was president,and trying to buy airline tickets for a reserve Ranger Batallion.
I admire that it took you that long to say Israel in your Theory Two. You must admit it took some work, but well done.
The American people saw him for what he is.
It's not just the issue of "cheap" oil -- it's oil, period. Two-thirds of the world's known reserves are in the Middle East. We most certainly have to develop as much of our own domestic resources as we can, but we cannot achieve energy "independence" now or in the forseeable future. Energy drives our economy and our economic strength is a pillar of our liberty.
Immigration is neither the cause of nor a solution to the problem of terrorism. Immigration is, on balance, both an economic and a political strength of this nation. As a free society, we will always be vulnerable to terrorist acts -- the solution is development of intelligence resources, continued dillgence, and rapid (and ruthless) interdiction of terrorist acts.
Pat's "solution" is to wall up the USA, cast away our international financial interests, and for all I know, assume the fetal position and whimper. To hell with that solution -- and him.
False. There is a difference between holding an anti-American viewpoint and flying planes into buildings full of innocent civilians. I'm sure that you can see that.
If we took your advice the price of oil would skyrocket.
Since we can't seem to stay out of the middle east we might as well occupy it and take the oilfields.
BUMP
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