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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
By contrast, the Monothelite position argues that the selection set and the selection mechanism *are* distinct entities -- a man's Wants being a function of his Nature, a man's Will being a function of his Person. The Will is the selection mechanism, and the natural Wants are the selection set. Thus I agree with your sentiment that

...an evil nature automatically, i.e., by definition, produces an evil will.

A neo-Monothelite such as myself regards the Will as being Free; but if the selection set of natural Wants which inform the Will are Totally Depraved, then all the selections which the selection mechanism energizes into action will automatically, i.e., by definition, be evil.

It would seem to my very uneducated mind that they are seperate..A question ..When one is "Born again" Which is it that is changed then ? I would assume it is the nature of the being that is changed ??Is that why sin remains an issue ..as Paul pointed out..He did that which he did not want to do??

267 posted on 01/02/2002 5:44:53 PM PST by RnMomof7
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To: RnMomof7, the_doc
By contrast, the Monothelite position argues that the selection set and the selection mechanism *are* distinct entities -- a man's Wants being a function of his Nature, a man's Will being a function of his Person. The Will is the selection mechanism, and the natural Wants are the selection set. Thus I agree with your sentiment that ...an evil nature automatically, i.e., by definition, produces an evil will. A neo-Monothelite such as myself regards the Will as being Free; but if the selection set of natural Wants which inform the Will are Totally Depraved, then all the selections which the selection mechanism energizes into action will automatically, i.e., by definition, be evil. ~~ It would seem to my very uneducated mind that they are seperate..

Well, yeah, that's what it seems to me, as well. It just seems more experiently correct to regard the "selection set" (my Wants) as a function of my Nature, and the "selection mechanism" (my Will) as a Function of my Person. When I elect an action, I consider the selection set of my Wants, and then I activate a selection action of Will. My "selection set" (my Wants) seem to be largely a function of inherited Nature, but the actual "selection action" (of my Will) I regard as being more particularly an expression of my unique Person.

But again, I'm not looking to advise anyone into a dogmatic position on this issue. I know that I have already devoted more study to the matter than at least 98% of American professing "christians" (that is not a boast, just an observation which I believe to be factual), and yet I know that I still have a lot more study to do. And I would caution that I am standing in opposition to the decrees of the Acts of the Sixth Ecumenical Council in entertaining a Monothelite view. On the one hand, as a protestant I feel a certain liberty in that regard (I have no difficulty whatsoever repudiating the Seventh Ecumenical Council's approval of the worship of Icons, for example). BUT, on the other hand, at least 174 bishops (out of a little over 300) subscribed to the Acts of the Sixth Ecumenical Council, and I am cognizant of the fact that's a large body of opinion with which to disagree!! So I don't study the matter lightly, nor should anyone else studying it. Just my advice.

A question ..When one is "Born again" Which is it that is changed then ? I would assume it is the nature of the being that is changed ??Is that why sin remains an issue ..as Paul pointed out..He did that which he did not want to do??

In my humble (and monothelitic) opinion, Yes -- that is correct. It is the nature of the Born Again believer which is changed. More particularly (as you will remember that Traducians such as the_doc and myself maintain that the Natural Soul of Man is a composite of *spirit* and *flesh*), it is the *spirit* which is regenerated. The *flesh* remains (until the Resurrection Glorification) tainted by the corruptions of the Fall. The Spirit (your communication with the Creator) has already died in Adam and is now re-born; but the Flesh (your communication with the Creation) is still corrupt, subject to the sinful passions of the Fall and its lustful habits. Your flesh, and all of Creation, must die and be reborn Glorified as well. Then we will be free.

So now the Will of your Person is torn between the two poles of your progressively-sanctified Nature... the Christful Wants of your re-born Spirit (your "new nature" in Christ) and the Sinful Wants of your corrupt Flesh (your "old man" of Sin).

Your Will (in my funky cross-breed of Monothelitism and Traducianism) is still - as it ever was - your Personal Will... the selection mechanism of your unique Person. Unfortunately, the Will of your Person is still a weakling compared to the influences of the Devil -- who is a stronger Person than you are!! That old Serpent may have seen your spirit torn from his grip, but he will still try to use your corrupt flesh to turn your Personal Will to Evil. Fortunately, however, your Person has acquired a new Partner -- the Holy Spirit himself, who comforts your Will against the demands of the flesh and strengthens your Will against the wiles of the Devil.

Thus the the Natural Soul of the regenerated Believer struggles between the Wants of his regenerate spirit, and the Wants of his corrupt flesh**; his Personal Will (selection mechanism) of decisioning between these two poles being tempted and influenced by the wiles of Satan, but protected and strengthened by the power of the Holy Spirit.

At least, that's my funky Monothelite-Traducian synthesis of Romans 7.

Now, it makes perfect sense to me...

...but, then again, I'm the only Monothelite-Traducian cross-breed I know.
So, as always, Just My Humble Opinion!! ;-)


**Postscript -- I should draw an important distinction here between my position and any form of "gnosticism". I do not regard the Flesh as evil but as fallen. One day, my flesh will be regenerated and perfected as well. I was created Flesh and Spirit, and so shall I ever be.
270 posted on 01/02/2002 6:55:35 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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To: RnMomof7
more experiently correct

more experientially correct

(My bad)

272 posted on 01/02/2002 7:05:31 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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