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To: fone
The dagger-through the tongue thing was from the original constitution of the colony of Virginia. It is reprinted under the name "For the colonie in Virginae Brittannia, matters, moral, legal and military" (or something like that.) I don't know the exact dates that this law was in effect, so I may have been wrong to say that they "grew up" under it. But certainly Christianity was officially sponsored in the Colonies, and the Founding Fathers took a huge step away from that system.
34 posted on 09/14/2001 10:57:47 AM PDT by dely2
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To: dely2
I'm concerned that this message that "All true Americans should pray" sends a message that there are many of us who are not "True Americans" - like somehow we're second class citizens or something in our own country.

Ah yes the good ole victim excuse. So all the 85% of America that believes in God should be restricted in their religious expression as called for by a religious President because you are "concerned that this message... that there are many of us who are not 'True Americans'...". If you feel that way don't blame us. Nobody has called you that. That feeling comes from your own self. I mean when I'm around rich people I don't feel second class even when they act like snobs. I don't buy secular victumology. You're not being forced to do anything you don't want to. You simply want others to restrict their behavior to make you feel more comfortable.

You said, "The government should govern. Leave all else to the people."

True but leaders should lead. And if the peoples and the leader(s) are Christian then that doesn't have to be restricted.

Again you said, "But certainly Christianity was officially sponsored in the Colonies, and the Founding Fathers took a huge step away from that system."

Wrong. Numerous states had State religions up until the late 19th century perhaps even early 20th (I can't recall exactly). Even Jefferson, that great secular leader, attended church services in the Treasury building. How about the Thanksgiving holiday? That was a result of Christianity in American culture. Secularization is a 20th century phenomenon so don't try to push it back to the founders.

39 posted on 09/14/2001 11:11:11 AM PDT by Texas_Jarhead
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To: dely2
Your ignorance of the founding of our country, and the role that religion played in it is utterly astonishing.

You must be a publik skool dropout .. . ..

Our Founders didn't want the State creating and controlling religion .. . and they didn't was a theocracy. BUT.. They did acknowledge God.

Some states had a "religious test" that courts did not strike down in the 1800's . .. . Some states required that an officeholder acknowledge God and Christ . .. under the presumption that atheists or agnostics might not take an oath of office seriously, and would have "relative" rules rather than absolutes. So for you to make the statements you made. .. shows your ignorance!

There are many well written books that describe the influence of religion . . . and the books cite articles written by founding fathers, and quote court decisions upholding religious values, and upholding requirements such as the one I cited above. Find some of these books, read them (or get someone to help you ...) And THEN maybe you can make some comments that are valid. Til then ... shut up if you don't want to expose your ignorance!

Mike

50 posted on 09/14/2001 12:53:11 PM PDT by Vineyard
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To: dely2
But certainly Christianity was officially sponsored in the Colonies, and the Founding Fathers took a huge step away from that system.

Actually, you're wrong. They set up the Constitution to allow each state to make it's own decisions on such things as even religion. It was the intention of the founding fathers that if a state wanted a state religion, they could establish it. Only Congress could not hinder the expression of religion.

75 posted on 09/14/2001 2:55:35 PM PDT by DallasDeb
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