WHY YOU CAN'T BE AN IRAN HAWK AND A RUSSIA DOVE

Institute for the Study of War ^

[higgmeister]

No!   I only got to the point where I saw that it was some obscure Russian who died in 1926 and stopped reading because it is irrelevant to anything happening in this day and age.   It is about as relevant as Francis' fixation on the importance of France in the American Revolution (not).

Totally obscure.   Get back in your time machine and dial it to sometime between 1917 and 1987.   Nobody wants you here.

[Chad C. Mulligan]

.....because it is irrelevant to anything happening in this day and age...

What's relevant is that Putin is lionizing this mass murderer. Tells us who he is and what his objectives are.

Imagine Germany putting up a statue of Himmler.

[Chad C. Mulligan]

Nobody wants you here.

YOU don't want me here because I keep fisking your posts. Tough.

[Chad C. Mulligan]

BTW....USA-FRANCE is not entirely wrong. As the Constitution was being drafted, James Madison made a request to Thomas Jefferson for a large number of books on classical forms of government to be sent to him. Jefferson obliged and sent the books, from Paris....in France.

[wastedyears]

America without its allied countries (its customers) would not be functional

When it comes to America’s military presence around the planet, it’s what guarantees its security and preserving its true independence today.

It’s a way to resist the ever expanding GINSCA (Globo-Islamo-NeoSoviet-Commie-Alliance) which is everywhere and hates America.

Countries hate us because we waltz in like we own the place and tell them what to do. Tell me, why were we in Vietnam? Korea? Panama? Mogadishu? Iraq the first time? Why do we have a presence in Africa at all?

giving them all the necessary leeway to massively expand themselves even further everywhere - spreading like cancer.

I don't see how that's our problem, or even a problem in the first place.

America’s isolationism would be an act of extreme anti-nationalism... and it would be a pro-globalist act.

Our enemies (especially Russia and China

How are either of them enemies?

Here is my general response to you

Go be a globalist elsewhere, because wanting to be spread all over the world is what the globalists want.

[higgmeister]

I'll grant you that Jefferson was very devoted to Voltaire who died in 1778.   I am sure Voltaire's works would have been in any library he sent to Madison along with all of the Ancient Classics.   When I visited Monticello in the late 1960s, the bust of Voltaire was on a pilaster in his combination Bedroom, Study and Solarium.

Voltaire, the great French philosopher and writer, died six years before Jefferson arrived in Paris. Jefferson admired his works and included them among a list of books of ancient and modern history, mathematics, astronomy, and religion recommended for the education of his nephew, Peter Carr, in 1787.

Jefferson's library included Voltaire's works published by Beaumarchais at Kehl, which he visited. A little more than a year after Jefferson arrived in Paris, he wrote, "I find the general fate of humanity here most deplorable. The truth of Voltaire's observation offers itself perpetually, that every man here must be either the hammer or the anvil."[2]

"Voltaire distrusted democracy, which he saw as propagating the idiocy of the masses."   In that, our Constitution was influenced by Voltaire more than the Constitution of France with their mob rule.

[higgmeister]

What's relevant is that Putin is lionizing this mass murderer. Tells us who he is and what his objectives are.

Imagine Germany putting up a statue of Himmler.

You make no sense.   What are you referring to?

[Navy Patriot]

Do I have to remind you that the American constitution was in large parts copied and pasted from French revolutionary values, practices and theories?

The biggest load of Bull Shite from the Horse Manure Frog yet.

James Madisonis the primary and leading author of the Constitution, and his notes, records and the Federalist Papers (by Madison and other authors) prove that.

Much thought and Principle was garnered from the Magna Carta, English Common Law, John Locke, Edward Coke and William Blackstone.

The small contribution of French thought came from the WRITINGS of Baron Montesquieu who died in 1755, not participating in either the American or French Revolutions.

Knock off the Lying.

[Robert DeLong]

You might learn something from this, but I sure won't be holding my breath, because when faced with reality, you use the all too convenient claim of having stated a straw man argument, though you refused to elaborate. You argue like a Democrat when they can't come back with some snappy response.

[Chad C. Mulligan]

You make no sense. What are you referring to?

Do you not know who Heinrich Himmler was? Commandant of Hitler's SS? Seriously?

[Chad C. Mulligan]

Robert, you DO know what is meant by a straw man. You keep assigning to me ideas and arguments that I have never expressed, so what else am I to say?

[woodpusher]

Projecting our power over 5,000 miles, crossing an ocean, would face difficulties. The supply line would not go unchallenged. Missile and drone attacks would take a toll.

Not many difficulties. We have plenty of experience doing this. Maybe you have no clue what the US Army is - it's the number one logistics company in the world. Those of us in combat arms is barely 1/8 of the Army, everyone else is there to support us. 7/8 of us is just beans and bullet delivery.

I mean contested logistics in a WW3 scenario. I doubt the Army is suddenly going to sprout a Navy. Trying to deliver supplies while Russia or China is trying to stop you differs from uncontested logistics.

Does the Army have a fleet of combat warships to transport about a million men and equipment without being sunk? What does an Army transport ship do when an enemy warship or submarine shows up?

Links only due to source, Army Times and Defense News.

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2024/02/12/army-activates-first-overseas-watercraft-unit-in-decades/

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2022/10/10/us-army-heightens-focus-on-contested-logistics-in-pacific/

https://www.defensenews.com/land/2023/03/29/us-army-has-a-gigantic-problem-with-logistics-in-the-indo-pacific/

[USA-FRANCE]

So you agree with me!
Montesquieu indeed! But there is way more to all this...

Beyond the fact that the US constitution was ratified just about a year before the French Revolution, and that BOTH the French and US revolutions were partly inspired by french thinkers (especially Montesquieu)... it’s highly important to recall another fact (more important than the US constitution itself): it’s the essential fact that America won its war of independence in the first place!
It was won in large part thanks to... France’s massive military help in troops, weapons, ammunition shipments, savvy military organisation and know-how.
All that was a needed prerequisite which permitted America to later envision and craft constitution.
If America would have remained British, there would be zero US constitution. Right?

No wonder Trump stated this about France:

“President Donald Trump, during a visit to Paris for Bastille Day, said, “France is America’s oldest ally. A lot of people don’t know that,” and added, “France helped us secure our independence, a lot of people forget.”

Navy Patriot? Are you disagreeing with President Trump??

Also, here is a nice read for you:

“Few Want to Admit It, but the French Saved America During the Revolution”
https://www.historynewsnetwork.org/article/few-want-to-admit-it-but-the-french-saved-america-

[Toddsterpatriot]

Trust neither, because Russia will enslave you for decades and NATO will protect you for decades.

Makes perfect sense.

[Darksheare]

What protecting has NATO done in the mideast?
October 7 happened, NATO decided to say “stop picking on Hamas”.
And again, Libya, Egypt, and Syria.
Face it, NATO doesn’t stand for protecting anything but globohomo now.

[Toddsterpatriot]

What protecting has NATO done in the Mideast?

I don't know how to break this to you, but no nations in the Middle East are members of NATO.

[Darksheare]

I hate to break it to you but we weren’t doing anything in the mideast without other NATO countries involved.

[Toddsterpatriot]

And again, Libya, Egypt, and Syria.

NATO didn't protect non-NATO members? Tell me more!!!

[Darksheare]

So why is Ukraine something to protect then because they aren’t a NATO member.

[Toddsterpatriot]

Tell me more about NATO encroaching.