you think pre-emtive strikes are not appropriate. I disagree
I start with the UN resolution Israel is now Israel and legitimate and regardless of what happened the last 2000 not 3000 years (even as romans controlled them) they have a serious claim to the territory. Unless you know a bunch of Caananites who do.
The real issue of legitimacy is on the Gazans What are palestinains but people who moved to the area from Syria, egypt and other places. It was the terrorist arafat who used the Palestinian cry to try to argue Israel was illegitimate.
The point at issue now is the Gazans killing Israelis in israel and taking hostages and their ongoing lobbing rockets into Israel using hospitals and schools for cover. When Hamas sells their rockets and buys food and medicine for their people, then they may start having some legitimacy.
Thanx for the history lesson. I disagree with several of your editorial comments.
My prayer today is the Israeli’s will clean out the vipers nest in Rafah and the US and Israel will bring hell and brimstone to Iran.
I start with the UN resolution Israel is now Israel and legitimate and regardless of what happened the last 2000 not 3000 years (even as romans controlled them) they have a serious claim to the territory. Unless you know a bunch of Caananites who do.
Israel is Israel. It does not include anything grabbed in 1967. More specifically, Israel does not include the West Bank, Jerusalem, any of the occupied territory, ot Jerusalem. Israel occupies areas that do not belong to Israel.
During WW1, the territory that is now Israel was part of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. After 3,000 years, there was no Israel. It is rather like saying the Mexicans have a current good claim to the entire Southwest of the United States.
Israel did not fight a war of independence and win any right to the land. It was gifted to them. In a land that was 85% Muslim, 2/3rds was given to Jewish interests and 1/3rd was given to the Muslim innterests. In 1967, the Israelis unlawfully apropriated to themselves nearly all of the third that was not gifted to them.
United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs (OCHA)OCCUPIED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY
Hostilities in Gaza and Israel are ongoing, and violence in the West Bank has surged. Millions of Palestinians struggle to live with dignity under Israeli occupation, facing coercive practices and Palestinian political divisions.
Based on the 2023 Humanitarian Response PlanThe occupied Palestinian territory (oPt) is a protracted political crisis characterized by 55 years of Israeli military occupation. This crisis is exacerbated by a lack of adherence to international humanitarian and human rights law, internal Palestinian divisions, and the recurrent escalation of hostilities between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups. The results are chronic protection concerns and humanitarian needs which will continue in the absence of a sustainable political solution and opportunities for further development.
At the same time, the oPt has undergone rapid demographic growth and urbanization, trends that will continue for the foreseeable future. The absence of and barriers to livelihood opportunities are subsequently driving a cycle of aid-dependency and reliance on negative coping strategies to meet basic needs. The high reported levels of debt, and use of savings to meet basic needs further exacerbate the financial precariousness of households and may reduce their resilience or ability to recover from future shocks.
In the Gaza Strip, the Israeli occupation and years of movement restrictions, including an Israeli-imposed blockade, and recurrent escalations between Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups have contributed to dire living conditions. In June 2007, after the 2006 legislative elections and following the takeover of Gaza by Hamas, the Israeli authorities implemented a blockade citing security concerns, virtually isolating Palestinians in Gaza, 2.2 million people as of 2023, from the rest of the oPt and the world more broadly. This land, sea and air blockade on Gaza intensified previous restrictions, imposing strict limits on the number and specified categories of people and goods allowed through the Israeli-controlled crossings. Restrictions imposed by the Egyptian authorities on the movement and access of people and goods at Rafah, the Gaza-Egypt crossing, further exacerbate the situation. Rapid population growth, coinciding with challenges to development gains and limited resources, has resulted in further deterioration of living standards and development prospects in Gaza.
In the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, Israel’s military occupation continues to impede basic human rights of Palestinians. Under the Oslo Accords, most of the West Bank was divided into East Jerusalem and Areas A, B and C, whereby each area is governed by different administrative and security regulations. In 2002, the Israeli authorities initiated the construction of a barrier, 712 kiloetres long, with the stated aim of preventing violent attacks inside Israel by Palestinians from the West Bank. In 2004, the International Court of Justice found the route of the Barrier to be illegal where it runs inside the West Bank. It is now a key component of a range of restrictions imposed by the Israeli authorities on the movement of Palestinians, which are implemented using physical obstacles, permit requirements and the designation of areas as “restricted” or “closed” to be used as firing or military zones. The Barrier has transformed the geography, economy, and social life of Palestinians living in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. The geographic and administrative fragmentation in the West Bank isolates families and communities from each other and from needed services, directly affecting the wellbeing, both physical and psychosocial, of Palestinians.
More generally, the ongoing conflict, the conduct of hostilities by Israeli forces, Hamas, the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and other armed groups, where concerns have been raised on indiscriminate, disproportionate or otherwise unlawful use of force, alongside a series of occupation-related practices, including the possible excessive use of force, demolitions, evictions, settlement expansion and settler-related violence – all drive insecurity, reverse and prevent socioeconomic progress, breed a climate of mistrust and tension between Palestinians and Israelis, and undermine political solutions.
Moreover, the intra-Palestinian divide between Hamas (in Gaza) and the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority (in parts of the West Bank) that began in 2007 remains unresolved, deepening territorial fragmentation between both areas, and reducing the capacity of local institutions in Gaza to deliver basic services. Political divisions and a sense of disenfranchisement in the West Bank are further entrenched given the absence of elections since 2006, the dismissal of the Palestinian Legislative Council in 2018 and the issuance of Presidential decrees.
The real issue of legitimacy is on the Gazans What are palestinains but people who moved to the area from Syria, egypt and other places. It was the terrorist arafat who used the Palestinian cry to try to argue Israel was illegitimate.
Gaza has been muslim territory for three millenia. The only change after WW1 was that it went from the Gazans under Turkish control, to being under the control of the League of Nations, then United Nations control, and then their own control. You need a vivid imagination to question the right of the Gazan people to be in Gaza.
Jerusalem was never part of the kingdom of Israel, not even in ancient times. It was part of the kingdom of Judah.
The real issue of legitimacy is on the Gazans What are palestinains but people who moved to the area from Syria, egypt and other places. It was the terrorist arafat who used the Palestinian cry to try to argue Israel was illegitimate.
The modern Jewish state was created by the League of Nations/United Nations. Israel declared independence in 1948. The Six Day war was in 1967, and is known as the third Arab-Israel war. The first Arab-Israeli war was in 1948. The second Arab-Israeli war, called the Suez Crisis, was in 1956. Palestine was a real thing.
The plan was to have Great Britain annex Palestine resulting in the creation of a Jewish state. Diabolicly, execution of the plan included British obtainment of Arab assistance by enticing the Sharif of Mecca to launch the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire in return for recognition of Arab independence in a large region after the war. During the war, Britain cut a secret deal with France.
In 1914, Herbert Samuel (1st Viscount Samuel, First High Commissioner of Mandatory Palestine) provided his memorandum called The Future of Palestine to his Cabinet colleagues. The memorandum stated: "I am assured that the solution of the problem of Palestine which would be much the most welcome to the leaders and supporters of the Zionist movement throughout the world would be the annexation of the country to the British Empire". Samuel spoke about it with Nathan Rothschild in February 1915, just before that Rothschild's death.
1915-1916 The McMahon-Hussein Correspondence
The McMahon–Hussein Correspondence is a series of letters that were exchanged during World War I in which the Government of the United Kingdom agreed to recognize Arab independence in a large region after the war in exchange for the Sharif of Mecca launching the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire.
Britain enlisted the aid of the Arabs to defeat the Ottoman Empire, but cut a secret deal with France.
The Ottoman Empire, an Islamic caliphate, had ruled the Palestinian area since 1517.
1916 SYKES-PICOT (Britain-France) SECRET AGREEMENT
https://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/sykes.asp
Plotting to carve up the Ottoman Empire in 1916 while the war was ongoing.
The Sykes-Picot Agreement: 1916It is accordingly understood between the French and British governments:
That France and Great Britain are prepared to recognize and protect an independent Arab states or a confederation of Arab states (a) and (b) marked on the annexed map, under the suzerainty of an Arab chief. That in area (a) France, and in area (b) Great Britain, shall have priority of right of enterprise and local loans. That in area (a) France, and in area (b) Great Britain, shall alone supply advisers or foreign functionaries at the request of the Arab state or confederation of Arab states.
That in the blue area France, and in the red area Great Britain, shall be allowed to establish such direct or indirect administration or control as they desire and as they may think fit to arrange with the Arab state or confederation of Arab states.
That in the brown area there shall be established an international administration, the form of which is to be decided upon after consultation with Russia, and subsequently in consultation with the other allies, and the representatives of the Shereef of Mecca.
That Great Britain be accorded (1) the ports of Haifa and Acre, (2) guarantee of a given supply of water from the Tigres and Euphrates in area (a) for area (b). His Majesty's government, on their part, undertake that they will at no time enter into negotiations for the cession of Cyprus to any third power without the previous consent of the French government.
That Alexandretta shall be a free port as regards the trade of the British empire, and that there shall be no discrimination in port charges or facilities as regards British shipping and British goods; that there shall be freedom of transit for British goods through Alexandretta and by railway through the blue area, or (b) area, or area (a); and there shall be no discrimination, direct or indirect, against British goods on any railway or against British goods or ships at any port serving the areas mentioned.
That Haifa shall be a free port as regards the trade of France, her dominions and protectorates, and there shall be no discrimination in port charges or facilities as regards French shipping and French goods. There shall be freedom of transit for French goods through Haifa and by the British railway through the brown area, whether those goods are intended for or originate in the blue area, area (a), or area (b), and there shall be no discrimination, direct or indirect, against French goods on any railway, or against French goods or ships at any port serving the areas mentioned.
That in area (a) the Baghdad railway shall not be extended southwards beyond Mosul, and in area (b) northwards beyond Samarra, until a railway connecting Baghdad and Aleppo via the Euphrates valley has been completed, and then only with the concurrence of the two governments.
That Great Britain has the right to build, administer, and be sole owner of a railway connecting Haifa with area (b), and shall have a perpetual right to transport troops along such a line at all times. It is to be understood by both governments that this railway is to facilitate the connection of Baghdad with Haifa by rail, and it is further understood that, if the engineering difficulties and expense entailed by keeping this connecting line in the brown area only make the project unfeasible, that the French government shall be prepared to consider that the line in question may also traverse the Polgon Banias Keis Marib Salkhad tell Otsda Mesmie before reaching area (b).
For a period of twenty years the existing Turkish customs tariff shall remain in force throughout the whole of the blue and red areas, as well as in areas (a) and (b), and no increase in the rates of duty or conversions from ad valorem to specific rates shall be made except by agreement between the two powers.
There shall be no interior customs barriers between any of the above mentioned areas. The customs duties leviable on goods destined for the interior shall be collected at the port of entry and handed over to the administration of the area of destination.
It shall be agreed that the French government will at no time enter into any negotiations for the cession of their rights and will not cede such rights in the blue area to any third power, except the Arab state or confederation of Arab states, without the previous agreement of his majesty's government, who, on their part, will give a similar undertaking to the French government regarding the red area.
The British and French government, as the protectors of the Arab state, shall agree that they will not themselves acquire and will not consent to a third power acquiring territorial possessions in the Arabian peninsula, nor consent to a third power installing a naval base either on the east coast, or on the islands, of the red sea. This, however, shall not prevent such adjustment of the Aden frontier as may be necessary in consequence of recent Turkish aggression.
The negotiations with the Arabs as to the boundaries of the Arab states shall be continued through the same channel as heretofore on behalf of the two powers.
It is agreed that measures to control the importation of arms into the Arab territories will be considered by the two governments.
I have further the honor to state that, in order to make the agreement complete, his majesty's government are proposing to the Russian government to exchange notes analogous to those exchanged by the latter and your excellency's government on the 26th April last. Copies of these notes will be communicated to your excellency as soon as exchanged. I would also venture to remind your excellency that the conclusion of the present agreement raises, for practical consideration, the question of claims of Italy to a share in any partition or rearrangement of turkey in Asia, as formulated in article 9 of the agreement of the 26th April, 1915, between Italy and the allies.
His Majesty's government further consider that the Japanese government should be informed of the arrangements now concluded.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration
The BALFOUR DECLARATION of 1917
Foreign Office
November 2nd, 1917.Dear Lord Rothschild,
I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty’s Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet.
“His Majesty’s Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country”.I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.
Yours sincerely,
/s/ Arthur James Balfour
The Balfour Declaration eventually led to the creation of the Jewish and Palestinian territories under the League of Nations and the United Nations. If Palestine did not exist, then the Balfour Declaration was about nothing. Note that it was not sent to a diplomat but to Lord Rothschild.
1920: TREATY OF SEVRES
https://treaties.fcdo.gov.uk/awweb/pdfopener?md=1&did=63986100 pp PDF
Carving up the Ottoman Empire
The plan dreamed up by the Europeans to carve up the Ottoman Empire would have reduced Turkey to a rump state, so Turkey went to war. That was finally resolved with the Treaty of Lausanne and the creation of the Turkish Republic.
1923: TREATY OF LAUSSANE
https://www.mfa.gov.tr/lausanne-peace-treaty-part-i_-political-clauses.en.mfaLausanne Peace Treaty
Part I.
Political Clauses
Article 1
From the coming into force of the present Treaty, the state of peace will be definitely re-established between the British Empire, France, Italy, Japan, Greece, Roumania and the Serb-Croat-Slovene State of the one part, and Turkey of the other part, as well as between their respective nationals.
Official relations will be resumed on both sides and, in the respective territories, diplomatic and consular representatives will receive, without prejudice to such agreements as may be concluded in the future, treatment in accordance with the general principles of international law.
Section I.
1.Tereitorial Clauses
Article 2.
From the Black Sea to the Aegean the frontier of Turkey is laid down as follows (see Map No.1).
[...]
Mandatory Palestine was a geopolitical entity established between 1920 and 1948 in the region of Palestine under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate for Palestine.
https://www.loc.gov/item/2021666887/
League of Nations
Mandate for Palestine
And Memorandum by the British Government Relating to its Application to Transjordan, Approved b the Council of the League of Nations on September 16th, 1922.
Title Page plus six pages each English and French.
MANDATE FOR PALESTINEWhereas the Principal Allied Powers have agreed, for the purpose of giving effect to the provisions of Article 22 of the Covenant of the League of Nations, to entrust to a Mandatory selected by the said Powers the administration of the territory of Palestine, which formerly belonged to the Turkish Empire, within such boundaries as may be fixed by them; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country; and
Whereas recognition has thereby been given to the historical connection of the Jewish people with Palestine and to the grounds for reconstructing their national home in that country; and
Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have selected His Britannic Majesty as the Mandatory for Palestine; and
Whereas the mandate in respect of Palestine has been formulated in the following terms and submitted to the Council of the League for approval; and
Whereas by the afore-mentioned Article 22, (paragraph 8) it is provided that the degree of authority, control or administration to be exercised by the Mandatory, not having been previously agreed upon by the Members of the League, shall be explicitly defined by the Council of the League of Nations;
Confirming the said mandate, defines its terms as follows:
Article 1
The Mandatory shall have full powers of legislation, save as they may be limited by the terms of this mandate.
Article 2
The Mandatory shall be responsible for placing the country under such political, administrative and economic conditions as wll secure the establishment of the Jewish national home, as laid down in the preamble, and the development of self-governing institutions, and also for safeguarding the civil and religious rights of all the inhabitants of Palestine, irrespective of race and religion
Article 3
The Mandatory shall, so far as circumstances permit, encourage local autonomy.
[...]
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-187751/
Future government of Palestine – GA debate – Verbatim record HUNDRED AND TWENTY-FOURTH PLENARY MEETINGHeld in the General Assembly Hall at Flushing Meadow, New York, on Wednesday,
26 November 1947, at 11 a.m.
President: Mr. O. ARANHA (Brazil)
123. Palestinian question: report of the Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question (document A/516)
[...]
https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-178646/
Palestine question/Future government/Partition plan – Ad Hoc Cttee report, recommendationsREPORT OF THE AD HOC COMMITTEE ON THE PALESTINIAN QUESTION
Rapporteur: Mr. Thor THORS (Iceland)
1. The General Assembly, at its ninetieth meeting held on 23 September 1947, established an Ad Hoc Committee on the Palestinian Question, to which it referred the following items:
(a) Question of Palestine: item proposed by the United Kingdom (document A/286);
(b) Report of the Special Committee on Palestine (A/364);
(c) Termination of the Mandate over Palestine and the recognition of its independence as one State: item proposed by Saudi Arabia and by Iraq (A/317 and A/328).
[...]
Israel declared independence May 14, 1948.
For a video of how the Middle East got its borders, see:
https://youtu.be/JN4mnVLP0rU?si=pZvBAaFqom5DOPnT
Why the Middle East’s Borders Guarantee Forever WarsYoutube
37 minutes
The ancient Kingdom if Israel was destroyed around 720BCE. It did not include Jerusalem.
Often seen is a claim that modern Israel won a war of independence in 1948. If so, who did they become independent from? Modern Israel was created by Great Britain and the League of Nations/United Nations. Unclear is how the UN owned the land, or had the authority to give it to Israel. Under the League of Nations, Britain was the appointed administrator of the Mandate for Palestine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_ancient_Israel_and_Judah
According to the Hebrew Bible, a "United Monarchy" (consisting of Israel and Judah) existed as early as the 11th century BCE, under the reigns of Saul, David, and Solomon; the country later split into two kingdoms: Israel, containing the cities of Shechem and Samaria in the north, and Judah (containing Jerusalem and the Jewish Temple) in the south. The historicity of the United Monarchy is debated—as there are no archaeological remains of it that are accepted as consensus—but The Kingdom of Israel was destroyed around 720 BCE, when it was conquered by the Neo-Assyrian Empire. While the Kingdom of Judah remained intact during this time, it became a client state of first the Neo-Assyrian Empire and then the Neo-Babylonian Empire. However, Jewish revolts against the Babylonians led to the destruction of Judah in 586 BCE, under the rule of Babylonian king Nebuchadnezzar II. According to the biblical account, the armies of Nebuchadnezzar II besieged Jerusalem between 589–586 BCE, which led to the destruction of Solomon's Temple and the exile of the Jews to Babylon; this event was also recorded in the Babylonian Chronicles. The exilic period, saw the development of the Israelite religion (Yahwism) towards the monotheistic Judaism.This ended with the fall of Babylon to the Achaemenid Persian Empire around 538 BCE. Subsequently, Persian king Cyrus the Great issued a proclamation known as the Edict of Cyrus, which authorized and encouraged exiled Jews to return to Judah. Cyrus' proclamation began the exiles' return to Zion, inaugurating the formative period in which a more distinctive Jewish identity developed in the Persian province of Yehud. During this time, the destroyed Solomon's Temple was replaced by the Second Temple, marking the beginning of the Second Temple period.