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To: Fishtalk
YOU do not pay anything toward anyone else’s SS but your own.

Many people believe that Social Security is an “earned right.” That is, they think that because they have paid Social Security taxes, they are entitled to receive Social Security benefits. The government encourages that belief by referring to Social Security taxes as “contributions,” as in the Federal Insurance Contribution Act. However, in the 1960 case of Fleming v. Nestor, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that workers have no legally binding contractual rights to their Social Security benefits, and that those benefits can be cut or even eliminated at any time.

Ephram Nestor was a Bulgarian immigrant who came to the United States in 1918 and paid Social Security taxes from 1936, the year the system began operating, until he retired in 1955. A year after he retired, Nestor was deported for having been a member of the Communist Party in the 1930s. In 1954 Congress had passed a law saying that any person deported from the United States should lose his Social Security benefits. Accordingly, Nestor’s $55.60 per month Social Security checks were stopped. Nestor sued, claiming that because he had paid Social Security taxes, he had a right to Social Security benefits.

The Supreme Court disagreed, saying “To engraft upon the Social Security system a concept of ‘accrued property rights’ would deprive it of the flexibility and boldness in adjustment to ever changing conditions which it demands.” The Court went on to say, “It is apparent that the non‐​contractual interest of an employee covered by the [Social Security] Act cannot be soundly analogized to that of the holder of an annuity, whose right to benefits is bottomed on his contractual premium payments.”

The Court’s decision was not surprising. In an earlier case, Helvering v. Davis (1937), the Court had ruled that Social Security was not a contributory insurance program, saying, “The proceeds of both the employee and employer taxes are to be paid into the Treasury like any other internal revenue generally, and are not earmarked in any way.”

In other words, Social Security is not an insurance program at all. It is simply a payroll tax on one side and a welfare program on the other. Your Social Security benefits are always subject to the whim of 535 politicians in Washington. Congress has cut Social Security benefits in the past and is likely to do so in the future. In fact, given Social Security’s financial crisis, benefit cuts are almost inevitable. Several proposals to cut benefits, from increasing the retirement age to means testing, are already being debated.

In contrast, under a privatized Social Security system, workers would have full property rights in their retirement accounts. They would own the money in them, the same way people own their IRAs or 401(k) plans. Congress would have no right to touch that money.

71 posted on 11/26/2023 8:34:01 AM PST by kabar
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To: kabar

Every word which is written in your post is correct.

And AB is right on about private contractors have to pay 12.8% plus some percentage for processing, just like a business must do. I did this once for a living, no particularly proud of it.

Cousin Mike’s got about the privacy of the 401K , SS benefits and amounts controlled by congress et al.

This group has a grip on it all.


74 posted on 11/26/2023 8:40:59 AM PST by Fishtalk (https://patfish.blogspot.com/)
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To: kabar
In regards to your post 71, the payout is not welfare until your cumulative payouts exceed your pay-ins. Even then, it also resembles a defined benefit pension (compared to a defined contribution plan).

Is the current structure bad? Yes. So are all defined benefit pensions available to government employees. I would like to see all government pensions described in terms of how many times the pension payout is larger than the maximum SS benefit. Example; Joe Biden's pension payout is $X, which is equal to 5.5 (or whatever the number is) Social Security max payouts.

82 posted on 11/26/2023 8:56:56 AM PST by Bernard (We honor veterans who fought to keep this country from turning into what it now is. --Argus Hamilton)
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