Posted on 08/21/2023 8:52:24 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
“Doesn’t mean much. The USA never recognized the Soviet annexation of the Baltic States.”
That’s because the annexation was illegal. But in 1940 no one was in any position to do much about it, what with WWII raging in Europe.
“The fact that Khrushchev transferred a Russian territory to The Ukraine doesn’t change that Crimea is historically Russian. Returning it to Russia is rectifying a Soviet-Communist action. The rest of the world that knows history knows this.”
Well, it was only part of Russia since the 18th century. Prior to that it was part of the Ottoman Empire; the Mongol Khanate, etc.
“If your position is that Crimea’s secession from Ukraine was illegal no matter how badly Ukraine violated the treaty of union, because Crimea didn’t follow a legal secession plan, how was Crimea’s secession from the Soviet Union legal?”
Crimea didn’t secede from the Soviet Union. It remained part of the Soviet Union after Krushchev transferred it to Ukraine in 1954, just as Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union.
Point is: it’s Russian.
>> Crimea didn’t secede from the Soviet Union. It remained part of the Soviet Union after Krushchev transferred it to Ukraine in 1954, just as Ukraine was part of the Soviet Union. <<
Well, Ukraine never recognized the Crimean SSR, but OK, let me ask the larger question in that case, how was Ukraine’s secession from the Soviet Union legal? Quick answer: Russia and the Ukraine agreed in 1992 that the Treaty of Union of 1922 was invalid. So Ukraine’s position therefore is that it never joined the Soviet Union. But then under what authority did Russia “give” Crimea to Ukraine? Saying that Ukraine
“owns” Crimea relies on the validity of legal fictions invented by the Soviet regime which Ukraine itself (AND ALL OTHER PARTIES) recognize as illegitimate.
“Point is: it’s Russian.”
Not legally.
Let’s say you are returning a library book, and you put your car in park and get out to walk around to the drop-off box; your ten-year old kid is in the backseat; and some guy jumps in the car and drives off. The car — which is registered to you and for which you hold legal title — does not legally become the thief’s car. And he’s facing a kidnapping charge along with a theft charge. Same principle.
“Well, Ukraine never recognized the Crimean SSR...”
Do you have a source for that? Because Crimea was an autonomous oblast within the Russian SFSR, and in 1954 was transferred to the Ukrainian SFSR. It existed as the Crimean SSR for only a few months in 1919.
“let me ask the larger question in that case, how was Ukraine’s secession from the Soviet Union legal?”
Because the Soviet Union was abolished and ceased to exist; there was nothing to belong to.
“Quick answer: Russia and the Ukraine agreed in 1992 that the Treaty of Union of 1922 was invalid.”
Not true. They — along with Belarus, the only three remaining SSRs — voted to dissolve it. The USSR ceased to exist, and the former SSRs were free to chart their own futures.
“So Ukraine’s position therefore is that it never joined the Soviet Union.”
BS.
“But then under what authority did Russia “give” Crimea to Ukraine? “
Crimea was an oblast within the Russian SFSR. Crimea was legally transferred to the Ukrainian SFSR in 1954.
“Saying that Ukraine ‘owns’ Crimea relies on the validity of legal fictions invented by the Soviet regime...”
Which legal fictions?
“...which Ukraine itself (AND ALL OTHER PARTIES) recognize as illegitimate.”
Link, please.
It’s Russian.
“It’s Russian.”
Not legally.
If you feel so strongly about Russian Crimea actually belonging to The Ukraine (which it only did because of the Communist Premier Khrushchev gifting it, thereby correcting a Soviet mistake), you should stop everything you’re doing right now, buy a ticket to Kiev, join up with Zelensky’s globalist regime army and force them to give it back (even though it’s historically and ethnically Russian territory).
If you don’t do that, I’ll take that to mean you’re just another keyboard kommando koward and thoroughly unserious.
You always trot out that BS when someone disagrees with you. In your world, if someone has an opinion different from yours that someone must drop everything and march off to war. You are well-known on FR as being a simpleton because of your simplistic asides. According to your logic, if someone wants to see LSU defeat Alabama in a football game that someone must drop everything and suit up as an LSU Tiger and rush into the game.
You are so childish.
So you’re an unserious poster/troll. Glad that’s cleared up.
“So you’re an unserious poster/troll. Glad that’s cleared up.”
No, I just believe in the rule of law. Because without the rule of law, there is bedlam and barbarism; which is no way to live.
And, what’s with this fieldmarshal crap? That is not a rank in the US military; which suggests to me that the closest you ever got to the US military — or any military — was the G.I. Joe doll you have in your dresser drawer.
And your sports analogy is moronic. Equating a football game to a civil war in Eastern Europe ? Something that we as Americans have no business involving ourselves in, one that Malthusian globalist lunatics hope could trigger WW3 if we did.
Like I said, you and your comrades are all unserious posters & trolls. You’ll gladly send off innocent teenagers to defend your beloved cause, all while sitting behind your keyboards kommando’ing how tough you are, but won’t put your own butt on the line. Absolutely 100% pathetic and cowardly.
“And your sports analogy is moronic. Equating a football game to a civil war in Eastern Europe.”
I wanted to put the Russian invasion in a context you might possibly understand; but I think even that went over your head.
I had no position on the Ukrainian civil war, because that was an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with, as long as it was confined to just Ukrainians. But when Russia introduced itself into the civil war beyond just supplying the separatists with arms, and compounding that by invading Ukraine in 2014, and escalating that invasion in 2022, it ceased being just an internal civil war, and became a war between nations, with far wider implications, especially since February, 2022.
“Like I said, you and your comrades are all unserious posters & trolls.”
You just don’t like the fact we disagree with you. And you can’t handle that, just like a little kid.
“You’ll gladly send off innocent teenagers to defend your beloved cause...”
I’m not sending anyone anywhere. But I applaud patriots who fight to defend their homeland against an unwarranted invasion by a larger and stronger aggressor. That’s a concept you don’t understand.
“...all while sitting behind your keyboards kommando’ing how tough you are...”
No, kid, that’s you talking to the mirror.
“...but won’t put your own butt on the line. Absolutely 100% pathetic and cowardly.”
I served, kid. Four years in the USAF during Vietnam. And I wasn’t drafted: I was in college, with a 2-S student deferment; yet, I enlisted. As did my brother before me. And my father before that (he was a pilot in WWII, and retired from the USAFR as a colonel).
But, of course, you never served; so you would never understand those who did.
Go back to your G.I. Joe doll.
It was an idiotic and false analogy and you got called out on it, once again.
"I had no position on the Ukrainian civil war, because that was an internal thing for Ukraine to deal with, as long as it was confined to just Ukrainians. But when Russia introduced itself into the civil war beyond just supplying the separatists with arms, and compounding that by invading Ukraine in 2014, and escalating that invasion in 2022, it ceased being just an internal civil war, and became a war between nations, with far wider implications, especially since February, 2022."
I was neutral on the entire business... until you warmongers lost your minds on Free Republic and I decided that was about quite enough of that garbage. Thankfully only 7% polled here thought involving ourselves in these foreign escapades that could trigger WW3 was a great idea.
"You just don’t like the fact we disagree with you. And you can’t handle that, just like a little kid."
Nope, it's that your entire argument is ludicrous and that not a single one of you warmongering cheerleaders will get up off your asses and go fight for your globalist hero. It's called epic hypocrisy.
"I’m not sending anyone anywhere. But I applaud patriots who fight to defend their homeland against an unwarranted invasion by a larger and stronger aggressor. That’s a concept you don’t understand."
Horsecrap, sending kids off to fight is exactly what you support. You're too much a coward to do it yourself, so you courageously volunteer innocents to go to the slaughter for their globalist leaders.
"No, kid, that’s you talking to the mirror."
Said the keyboard kommando.
"I served, kid. Four years in the USAF during Vietnam. And I wasn’t drafted: I was in college, with a 2-S student deferment; yet, I enlisted. As did my brother before me. And my father before that (he was a pilot in WWII, and retired from the USAFR as a colonel)."
Which makes this all the more sad. You should be doing everything in your power to advocate for avoiding having children slaughtered in a useless proxy war (for American soldiers) and for Ukrainian children not to be sacrificed for an immoral degenerate totalitarian globalist dictator Zelensky. You're just another old man who gets aroused at the thought of more wars. Sick and evil.
I've got generations of family going back to the Revolution who served, and there wasn't a one of them who would've advocated sending children off to fight battles they themselves wouldn't have fought.
"But, of course, you never served; so you would never understand those who did."
I never served, you blithering idiot, because I have had lifelong health problems that disqualified me from serving. And I'm certainly not going to advocate sacrificing American kids because I was unable to serve.
"Go back to your G.I. Joe doll."
Sounds like you're the one playing with dolls. I was too busy growing up actually studying geography and history. Dismissed.
“It was an idiotic and false analogy and you got called out on it, once again.”
Nice try, kid.
“I was neutral on the entire business... until you warmongers lost your minds on Free Republic and I decided that was about quite enough of that garbage. Thankfully only 7% polled here thought involving ourselves in these foreign escapades that could trigger WW3 was a great idea.”
You are projecting, son.
“Nope, it’s that your entire argument is ludicrous...”
It’s because you can’t logically refute my argument, and it gives you the vapors.
“...and that not a single one of you warmongering cheerleaders will get up off your asses and go fight for your globalist hero. It’s called epic hypocrisy.”
I have already showed you how ridiculous your demand that anyone who applauds Ukrainians fighting for their homeland should drop everything and go to Ukraine and join in the fight. I could say the same stupid thing to you: Get off your lazy fat ass and go fight the Mexican drug cartels that are not only in your state, but likely in your own town, if not your own neighborhood. And they pose a DIRECT threat to you. But, of course, you are just a punk blowhard; so you will do nothing, and would probably turn into an informant FOR the cartels to save your own sorry self.
“Horsecrap, sending kids off to fight is exactly what you support. You’re too much a coward to do it yourself, so you courageously volunteer innocents to go to the slaughter for their globalist leaders.”
I support what they are doing because they are fighting for their homes and families, which is what any patriot would do in their circumstance. But, I doubt it is something YOU would do. No, you sound like kind of twerp who would depend on his betters to save your butt. Fieldmarshal, indeed. How pretentious!
“Which makes this all the more sad. You should be doing everything in your power to advocate for avoiding having children slaughtered in a useless proxy war (for American soldiers) and for Ukrainian children not to be sacrificed for an immoral degenerate totalitarian globalist dictator Zelensky.”
Well, Russia seems to be doing all the slaughtering of children; so, why aren’t you calling for Russia to cease its invasion, pack up its duds, and go back home? I’ll tell you why: You’re a fraud.
“You’re just another old man...”
Well, you’re right about that.
“...who gets aroused at the thought of more wars.”
No; my wife, even in her infirmity, gets by blood a-stirring.
And, I see you trotted out your forefathers’ service, but then admitted you yourself never served. Lifelong health problems, you say? That is the go-to-excuse for people who never served; I’ve heard it more times than I can remember. For some, it may be true; for the majority, I suspect, it’s a copout excuse. You strike me as falling into the latter camp.
And, who is sacrificing American kids? I’ve been saying for more than a year and a half that I do NOT support putting American boots on the ground in Ukraine or American helmets in the air over Ukraine.
“Said the keyboard kommando.”
Too funny! Which of us has a militaristic screen name? And unearned, at that? Why didn’t you just be honest and use
4-F as your screen name, instead of trying to be something you’re not? At least 4-F would describe what you claim to be, or were.
“Sounds like you’re the one playing with dolls. I was too busy growing up actually studying geography and history.”
Well, you didn’t learn squat.
That’s because the annexation was illegal.
So is the annexation of the Crimea, and no one did anything about that.
“So is the annexation of the Crimea, and no one did anything about that.”
No; it was roundly condemned; and the annexation was not recognized as legal.
Don’t waste your time with him, he’s a hack
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.