McCain could not have been born in a CZ Naval Hospital in 1936. It was built in WW2. You have not seen the records for the non-existent hospital.I may have done, but my recollection is it included the name of the doctor that delivered him and his mother's name. The reporter that did the story said he verified everything he could about the record he had found, and it was inherently consistent.
Maybe I can illuminate your failing memory and you can actually say what you are trying to say. As a caution though, your source is WAPO, and it spewed a number of false claims.
The doctor was falsely named as "Capt. William L. Irvine."
The reporter, or transcriptionist, was Michael Dobbs of the Washington Post.
McCain's Birth Abroad Stirs Legal Debate
His Eligibility for Presidency Is QuestionedBy Michael Dobbs
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, May 2, 2008
[Dobbs:] "A senior official of the McCain campaign showed a reporter a copy of the senator's birth certificate issued by Canal Zone health authorities, recording his birth in the Coco Solo 'family hospital.'"
The article contains several errors of fact, among them being the claimed Coco Solo family hospital which did not exist. The Navy has never had a command called a "family hospital." Just outside the main gate of the base was a hospital run by the Canal Zone authorities. There were no sponsored dependents at Coco Solo, meaning McCain and his wife were required to live off base. They would have to drive past the hospital to enter the base that had no hospital.
Here, Michael Dobbs did not find a record. He claimed a reporter (unnamed) was shown a record.
Neither Dobbs nor McCain ever made such document available to the public.
Michael Dobbs was also the original fact checker for WAPO.
Dobbs, Michael (2008-05-20). "The Fact Checker: John McCain's Birthplace". The Washington Post.
"The birth certificate was signed by Captain W.L. Irvine. I have now checked that name against the Naval Register for 1936, and I find that William Lorne Irvine was director of the medical facility at the submarine base hospital in Coco Solo, Panama Canal Zone, during that time period. You can see the entry here [DEAD LINK] I think this effectively disposes of any remaining doubts that McCain was born inside the Canal Zone."
The linked document was a list of Medical Directors in the Navy Medical Corps holding the equivalent rank of Captain. Other, more senior Medical Directors, on another list, held the equivalent rank of Rear Admiral. Michael Dobbs, (or the senior campaign official) was unable to correctly read the Navy publication.
"Captain" Irvine was not a Captain. Prior to the 1950s conversion of Staff Corps officers to Line Corps rank names, there were no Captains in the Medical Corps. Irvine's rank was that of Medical Director. He was Medical Director Irvine, and had previously held the lower rank of Flight Surgeon. This did not mean he was the Director of anything, or that he performed surgery, airborne or otherwise. It just meant his rank was called Medical Director.
No copy of a birth certificate signed by "Capt." W.L. Irvine has ever been produced. Any document from 1936, with such a signature, would necessarily be a fake if it actually showed the rank of a Medical Corps officer as Captain.
While the records for the Canal Zone have been preserved, a birth certificate for John McCain is not among them. The page that should have John McCain's name is there, but his name is not on the page.
A senate resolution declared:
Whereas John Sidney McCain, III, was born to American citizens on an American military base in the Panama Canal Zone in 1936: Now, therefore, be itResolved, That John Sidney McCain, III, is a 'natural born Citizen' under Article II, Section 1, of the Constitution of the United States.
There is nothing in 14A, or U.S. citizenship law, about birth on a military base. If not born within the territory and jurisdiction of the United States, the determination of birth citizenship is made pursuant to the effective Federal law at the moment of birth. John McCain was not born within the territory of the United States. In McCain's case, the federal law itself was horribly defective and did not apply to someone born within the jurisdiction of the United States. The law was changed the next year.
[Dobbs]: "I find that William Lorne Irvine was director of the medical facility at the submarine base hospital in Coco Solo, Panama Canal Zone, during that time period."
The military never had "directors" of medical facilities.
There was likely a small sick bay or clinic/dispensary which was an integral part of the submarine command, existing as its Medical Department. There were no sponsored dependents allowed at Coco Solo, so there could not be an OB/GYN clinic, or military family health care. And assuredly, there was no hospital.
While there have been commands called a Naval Facility, there has never been a command called a Medical Facility. Naval records document there was no Naval Hospital at Coco Solo prior to the 1940's.
A clinic or dispensary cannot routinely deliver babies in an ad hoc delivery room. The Feres Doctrine protects the military from malpractice suits by military members but not by civilian dependents. Were there to be a problem delivery, it sure would be nice to have an operating theater nearby, with a staff to man it. Navy clinics and dispensaries do not sport operating theaters and an O.R. staff. The base had zero command sponsored dependents.
Factchecker Dobbs:
'As I reported earlier, the McCain campaign has declined to publicly release the senator's birth certificate. But a senior campaign official showed me a copy of his birth certificate issued by the "family hospital" in the Coco Solo submarine base.'A senior campaign official showed Dobbs a copy of what was purported to be a birth certificate issued by the "family hospital".
On a base with zero sponsored dependents, it is an absurdity.
FIVE PINOCCHIOS
Factchecker Dobbs:
"The birth certificate was signed by Captain W. L. Irvine. I have now checked that name against the Naval Register for 1936, and I find that William Lorne Irvine was director of the medical facility at the submarine base hospital in Coco Solo, Panama Canal Zone, during that time period. You can see the entry here [DEAD LINK] I think this effectively disposes of any remaining doubts that McCain was born inside the Canal Zone.
FIVE PINOCCHIOS.
Note that while there as no such thing as a Captain in the Medical Corps in 1936, Dobbs specifically identified the docment he was shown as having been signed by Captain W. L. Irvine.
This is what you get from a senior campaign official and his transcriptionist.
If it was fake, it was a d@mn good fake.
It appears it was good enough to fool you.
In Hollander v. McCain, an attachment to Doc 20, Doc 20-1 was a purported birth certificate for John McCain submitted by Hollander. It was provided by Donald Lynn Lamb whose affidavit claimed he is "the legal representative of the New York company known as The Panama Railroad Company." It was a document AGAINST John McCain in the failed case of Hollander v. McCain.
See: https://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/02/the-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/
The Birth Certificate is a forgery!
I find it entirely believable that the Washington Post spewed false claims. I have seen them do it so many times before, it is quite plausible that they did so in this case.
"The birth certificate was signed by Captain W.L. Irvine. I have now checked that name against the Naval Register for 1936, and I find that William Lorne Irvine was director of the medical facility at the submarine base hospital in Coco Solo, Panama Canal Zone, during that time period. You can see the entry here [DEAD LINK] I think this effectively disposes of any remaining doubts that McCain was born inside the Canal Zone."
This sounds familiar. This is more or less what I remember reading.
There is nothing in 14A, or U.S. citizenship law, about birth on a military base.
Well there is in Vattel's "law of nations" in the section that covers children born of people in service to their nation in foreign lands.
Again, it makes much more sense than the stuff we are told to believe nowadays.
It appears it was good enough to fool you.
Most of the people don't need to know the details about Naval/Military ranking or the particulars of what facilities are available to take care of servicemembers and their dependents. We all like to believe they are taken care of, and for many of us the particulars do not really matter so long as the results are good.
Of course all of my acceptance of the claim was based on the notion that a reporter for the Washington Post would not flat out lie regarding something in which his lie could be discovered. Apparently he is either dumber or more cynical than I would have thought plausible.
Now I like to believe that you are more honest and that when you say there are no military records showing a military hospital there at the time, I can trust this information because you have no reason to lie and you are quite diligent and effective at looking things up.
I therefore conclude that you are correct, and I am mistaken on this particular matter, but insofar as it would have had any practical effect, I think the issue is pointless.
Americans inherently understand that the children of servicemen should have full US citizenship. They understand that Vattel's view is correct, even if they had never seen it before.
It is clearly natural, and the right thing to do.