Posted on 06/21/2023 7:53:34 PM PDT by delta7
Since the Ukrainian abrogation of the Istanbul non-aggression and neutrality agreement of March 2022, which President Vladimir Putin displayed to a delegation of African leaders last Saturday, one thing has been clear. The pact to end this war will be drafted and signed by Ukrainian soldiers who have been defeated in the field, not by civilian politicians who are paid and instructed by Washington.
The terms will be dictated by Russian soldiers. They will calculate the distances to be covered by long-range NATO artillery and missile launches on Russian territory, and of Ukrainian terrorist attacks into Russian regions. These are military facts the Russian General Staff have a long history of calculating, plotting them on maps and reinforcing the depth of defence and control lines – as long ago as the Soviet Army war against the US-backed Afghan mujahideen.
Since last November, when this website published first maps of a demilitarized zone for the Ukrainian territory, the depth of the Russian defence lines has been moving steadily westward. As each of the Ukrainian strategic reserves – units newly trained and armed by the US and NATO states – are committed to battle and fail, their retreat leaves all of the remaining Ukrainian territory open to a Russian advance.
What follows is the first detailed discussion in the open in Moscow of how the map of this territory should be drawn when the Ukrainian offensive reaches its end, and the Russian advance begins.
Left out of mention is who in Moscow will be drawing the new map. This is because Putin has annonced he is delegating to the General Staff. “Russia’s military leadership,” he said on June 9, “is realistic in its assessments of the situation and will proceed from these realities as it continues to plan up our actions in the short term.”
Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov had already said the same a year ago. “Now the geography is different,” he concluded an interview in Moscow on July 20, 2022. “Take the HIMARS. [Ukrainian] Defence Minister Alexei Reznikov boasts that they have already received 300-kilometre ammunition. This means our geographic objectives will move even further from the current line. We cannot allow the part of Ukraine that Vladimir Zelensky, or whoever replaces him, will control to have weapons that pose a direct threat to our territory or to the republics that have declared their independence and want to determine their own future.”
“[Question:] How can this be arranged, technically? This is our territory. Then there are the republics that will accede to us. In fact they already have – the Kherson and Zaporozhye regions. … Further west, there is the territory controlled by Vladimir Zelensky. They have a common border. So either there should be a 300 kilometre buffer zone or something between them, or we need to march all the way to Lvov inclusive.”
“[Lavrov:] There is a solution to this problem. The military know this.” “Comrade servicemen,” Lavrov added last week on a visit to the 201st Russian Military Base in Tajikistan, “they are getting ready, in earnest, to supply the F-16 jets. Some say they will make two squadrons available, others say eight. They are gearing up to continue the escalation of the war against us. There’s an ongoing debate about where these planes will take off from. Our armed forces and the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces are well aware of ongoing developments and report to the Supreme Commander-in-Chief. We must keep in mind that one version of the F-16 can carry nuclear weapons. If they do not understand this, they are worthless military strategists and planners.”
The General Staff have no reason to speak publicly on this point. Privately, a source in a position to know says: “the General Staff are not satisfied with the Dnieper [line of defence]. It will run from a small town on the border with Belarus to Transnistria. They will solve that problem as well. But mainly, Belarus has to be protected from the south. And most importantly, that leaves nothing of the Ukraine except the territory which the Poles and Hungarians might not be bold enough to take.”
Vladimir Putin spoke twice this week about the creation of a “sanitary cordon” on the territory of Ukraine. This line should protect the territories of the Russian Federation from the attacks of the Armed Forces of Ukraine [AFU], which receive long-range missiles from the West. Russia has experience in creating such a zone in Afghanistan, but in the new realities we may be talking about a larger project. In which territories is such a cordon necessary, first of all?
Moscow will consider the possibility of creating a “sanitary cordon” on the territory of Ukraine if the Ukrainian Armed Forces continue attacks on Russian territories. This was stated by Russian President Vladimir Putin during the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum. “They should just understand where it all leads to. We are working on military targets with high–precision long-range and high-power weapons and are achieving success,” he added.
Putin raised this topic at a meeting with military officers at the beginning of the week. “The possibility of shelling our territory from the territory of Ukraine remains, of course. There are several ways to solve this: firstly, increasing the effectiveness of counter-battery warfare. But this does not mean that the incoming so-called will not be on our territory. And if this continues, then we will probably have to consider the issue, I say this very carefully, in order to create some kind of sanitary zone on the territory of Ukraine at such a distance from which it would be impossible to get our territory,” the president said.
The width and boundaries of this “sanitary zone” depend on the range of weapons of the Armed Forces of Ukraine (AFU), presidential spokesman Dmitry Peskov added on Saturday. “The more advanced the tactical and technical characteristics of weapons in Ukraine, the greater this distance should be,” he stressed.
Outline map of UDZ – June 13, 2023. The head of the Duma Defense Committee, Andrei Kartapolov, also said that the “sanitary zone” would have to be free of weapons reaching the territory “that Russia considers its own.” According to the deputy, the General Staff should “form a concept and report to the president” on the creation of such a zone.
Deputy Chairman of the Russian Security Council Dmitry Medvedev mentioned back in March that the “sanitary strip” in Ukraine would not allow the Armed Forces of Ukraine to use weapons at medium and short distances of 70-100 km. But already this week [June 14], in his Telegram channel, Medvedev said that, taking into account the decision of the West to supply Kiev with long-range weapons, the line of the demilitarized “sanitary zone” should run “along the borders of Lvov (Polish Lemberg) in order to play a real defensive role. “Then they will be the new secure borders of what used to be called the ‘404 country,'” he wrote.
Source: https://t.me/ June 14, 2023. In the second paragraph, Medvedev said: “If we proceed from the proven complicity of Western countries in undermining the Nord Stream [pipelines], then not even moral restrictions are left for us to refrain from destroying the cable communication of our enemies laid on the ocean floor.”
“It is more accurate to use the term “buffer zone”. Having taken control of this zone, in the outcome we are unlikely to give it to Ukraine,” says Alexander Perendzhiev, Associate Professor of the Department of Political Analysis and Socio–Psychological Processes at the Plekhanov Russian University of Economics, and a member of the expert council of “Officers of Russia”. “If Ukraine continues to shoot, the process of advancing Russian troops to the west may be endless,” he added.
According to this expert, the “sanitary cordon” could now become the Dnieper River. “Remember the Great Stand on the Ugra in 1480. This event is considered the completion of the overthrow of the Mongol-Tatar yoke in Russia. Now we can also assume that the liberation of the southern underbelly in the form of Odessa, Nikolaev, and up to the border with Transnistria will take place,” Perendzhiev suggested. But there are other opinions, too.
“If such a zone is created, it will run from the Bug to the Vistula, but not along the Dnieper line, because many supporters of Russia, Russians, live in Kiev. This is traditionally our land, which was part of the Russian Empire, the USSR. Therefore, we have every right to talk about a security line on territories fundamentally different from the territories historically belonging to Russia. Russia’s geopolitical interests extend much further than the Dnieper line,” said Oleg Ivannikov, a military political scientist and lieutenant colonel (reserve) at the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
According to Ivannikov, today the number one task is the denazification of the Kiev regime. Therefore, when there are fundamental political changes in the Ukrainian statehood, “the very question of creating buffer zones would become irrelevant.” “We are not talking about the firing of tanks, mortars, large-calibre artillery at our territories. Western artillery systems have the ability to hit targets at a distance of up to 40 kilometres. The fact that such a zone should be near Donetsk and further from the DPR border is unequivocal. And also in the LPR, in the Kherson region and in Zaporozhye – where there is still fighting. Of course, we are talking about the Belgorod region and the Bryansk region, which borders with the Sumy and Chernigov regions,” said Vasily Dandykin, captain of the 1st rank, deputy editor–in-chief of the Warrior of Russia magazine.
He recalled that Russia already has experience in creating a buffer zone in Afghanistan. “When the 40th Combined Arms Army was there, which was part of a limited contingent of Soviet troops, the “sanitary zone” was provided by the border troops of the USSR. They had maneuverable groups that did not allow the mujahideen to enter the rear of our group on the territory for tens of kilometers,” the expert said.
According to Dandykin, the size of the “sanitary cordon” depends on what range of weapons the enemy will have. “If these are long-range cruise missiles, then a zone of 40 kilometres does not make sense. Now Ukraine has HIMARS MLRS [multiple launch rocket systems] with missiles with a flight range of up to 80 kilometres. The Americans can supply missiles with a range of up to 200 kilometres,” Dandykin said.……….
The real sickness is the Ukrainians sending more and more of their people to their deaths at the behest of their NATO controllers.
The sad part of this is at the end Ukraine will be bled out, and then sold out. Just like the USA does to all its “allies”.
Do you know that tonight they are attacking south of Orikhiv YET AGAIN, even they have been slaughtered on that axis multiple times already ?
https://youtu.be/neraseVKoQg?t=162
You slander us; I haven’t had a “software update” since Metternich retired in 1848.
In less silly terms, everything we are looking at is the eternal state of human affairs. Human nature never changes. There is nothing new under the sun. 1939 is as relevant as 1999 or 2022, or 431 BC.
Russia is “upholding Christian civilization” as much as the Soviet Union was upholding “civil rights” in the US during the 20th century. The Soviets were great anti-racists you know. And one of their favorite tricks was recruiting fellow travellers and agents of influence - perhaps including certain gullible reverends. See Mitrokhin. The same institutions are running modern Russia.
What is “slaughtered”? Have you been there yourself to count bodies?
The Ukrainians were “slaughtered” wholesale over and over around the Kherson bridgehead, per the Russians, and around Lyman and Izyum, and yet they took them anyway. Perhaps there wasn’t as much slaughtering going on as the Russians, and their American agents of influence, hoped.
The Russians don’t have to push any subversive agendas on 2023 USA.
The self destruction comes right from the top.
https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1668413594004774912
No, the Russians are providing a propaganda line, and you are advocating it. The US government does a great deal of evil, but there is more than one villain in this world, and the Russians do a great deal more evil at the moment.
That the villains have fallen out with each other has not changed their character.
It makes for a complex worldview for someone of good will, or at least some of them, but it is what it is. Take your cue from the peoples of Eastern Europe, such as the Poles, who deal with problems from both sides. Indeed, the Poles are a good guide for where the right lies in all this.
And may God defend the right.
Asking for a friend.
Lavrov and Putin are both war mongering assholes. The audacity of these jack-asses to make claim that Ukraine defending itself and NATO supporting Ukraine's defense is considered ESCALATING the war against Russia. Absolute hilarity!
What results from this madness other than getting more Ukranian things destroyed, getting more Ukrainians dead, and quite possibly seeing the demise of Ukraine as a nation state?
We were holy, right as rain,
They started it was the refrain,
Putin bad, no just insane,
Doesn't matter, here lies Ukraine.
DPR and LPR declared independence nearly a decade ago. They have maintained an independent government ever since. Russia recognized their independence in 2022. Subsequently, Russia entered into mutual defense agreements with both, obligating it to come to the defense of DPR or LPR upon any act of aggression. Russia entered the conflict pursuant to the mutual defense agreements providing assistance to DPR and LPR. Crimea declared independence nearly a decade ago and was recognized and annexed by Russia at that time. Ukraine has made no attempt to govern it since. Russia termed their participation as a Special Operation as their participation in assistance to DPR and LPR. Using NATO-provided long range missiles to attack Crimea or Moscow could cause an escalation to a full blown international conflict with Russia, bringing forth the full might of the Russian military. Currently, only a fraction of that military power is being employed. Russia is not treating the conflict as a war against Russia. That is subject to change. Escalating from a conflict with DPR/LPR assisted by Russia, to a direct international war with Russia is the relevant escalation.
Before Putin invaded Ukraine, Ukraine's south-eastern cities were clean, modern, classical and beautiful in architecture and culture. It's Black-Sea beaches and parks were picturesque and bustling with Ukraine people swimming, walking and vacationing. Ukraine threatened no one.
Before independence, Ukraine had the second best economy among the Soviet republics. From independence to commencement of the Special Operation, Ukraine had sunk to the second lowest per capita income in all of Europe, leading Moldova slightly, and with those bottom two significantly trailing third from the bottom. Ukraine will emerge from the conflict as an economic basket case being unable to support itself. Most of its former economy was located in its Russian speaking area.
While racing to the bottom economically, it rose to the top at corruption. It is noteworthy that they bribed a Vice-President of the United States, not just some congress critters. Ukraine conspired in corrupt schemes with American politicians. Ukraine poses a major threat to those who used their laundromat or received their bribes, should the records of the corruption be revealed to the world.
Keep cheering for your boy Putin and the destruction he's brought upon a beautiful country just because he wants Ukraine back in the fold of Russian control. And he will kill all Ukrainians and sacrifice all of Russian men to conquer a neighbor for greed, territorial gain and personal grandeur.
Nobody needs to cheer for any of the parties involved. Neither does anybody but the parties involved need to care about who governs Ukraine. Defending Ukraine is the responsibility of Ukraine. The responsibility for electing a senile President belongs to the United States. The responsibility for electing a comic actor exhibiting little man syndrome as President belongs to Ukraine. The responsibity to defend Ukraine belongs to Ukraine.
Ukraine is in the process of being spanked by its bigger, badder neighbor. If nothing else, Ukraine many learn not to antagonize its neighbor, lest said neighbor give it a spanking.
Ukraine threatening to bring NATO to its border with Russia is like a chihuahua baring its fangs and menacing a grizzly bear. Maybe the chihuahua does it twice and nothing happens. But third time is the charm and the grizzly bear engages in a conflict with the chihuahua. I pick the grizzly bear to win because I'm a grizzly bear puffer.
Grow up little boys.
It appears the comic actor has grown as much as he is going to grow, and is a prime example of the Peter Principle. His whole country is suffering because it has a comic actor as President. And because he snarled at the bear before ensuring he had a coalition of the willing to fight his fight for him. Not one nation on earth has volunteered to fight the bear for him, while he is getting mauled. The actions of every nation on earth exhibit their belief that the defense of Ukraine is Ukraine's problem, not theirs.
When Ukraine was given independence, or kicked to the curb, the United States and Russia joined forces to demand that Ukraine give up the Soviet nukes that were left on its territory. With Yugoslavia fresh in their mind, it was expressed that nobody wants a Yugoslavia with nukes. The EU and NATO has shunned Ukraine for decades. Precisely nobody would provide Ukraine with a guarantee of their security except in case of a nuclear attack.
Yugoslavia was not a NATO country. Yugoslavia had not attacked any other nation, not to mention any NATO nation. NATO could not obtain approval from the UN Security Council to intervene militarily. And yet, NATO bombed the defenseless former Yugoslavia for three months. Yugoslavia had no effective air defense. They simply sat there as NATO bombed their civilian intrastructure until they capitulated. And then there were boots on the ground from all over. Ukraine, not so much.
So much enthusiam in one case and not the other. It almost makes one wonder if the little man in Kiev expected NATO and the world to provide military manpower. Perhaps nobody could have foreseen that this was a mistake. Or did he believe Ukraine could defeat Russia in a conflict one on one? If so, that is proving to be delusional, even with massive assistance.
Oh well, we all live, learn, and grow up. With some exceptions on the growing up part. Those will never admit this conflict is the result of a massive American/Ukranian diplomatic screwup. American diplomacy with China has gone so well that when the American Department of Defense calls, the Chinese don't pick up the phone.
Garbage article from a garbage blog full of lies.
And unconditionally surrendered their country to Putin?
And you know that how?
Hitler and Stalin would have loved you.
Over the morning coffee, I surely enjoyed reading this thread which your post sparked,
It is interesting how one side possibly winning and the other side possibly losing sets off those who "LOL and sing and dance" when their threads are "joined" by their admirers. And the inverse is also evident.
What is without argument -- though some might spew forth argument -- is that metaphorically this "event" is probably not even at halftime metaphorically, while the devotees of one team declare a victorious outcome every day. Meanwhile, it seems to some that the end of this game is not evident, and outcome uncertain. To wait to learn the eventual outcome irritates those so quick and devoted to declare victory. To have other concerns such as our massive and growing national debt and broad corruption in government are mere side issues to the centrality of a war between two still non-NATO nations with thugs brawling so far from our shores.
Not my circus, although some politics' circus it is, and not my clowns, although the cheers from the peanut gallery show whose clowns these are.
The climate change scam predicts the future ad nauseum. The Covid scam predicted the future, incorrectly. The Uke/Ruskie pontificate might predict an outcome -- complete with the same message as the other scams , send more and more money -- but some of us will just wait for the results when the results are actually in. And be very concerned about Democrats and a $32 trillion debt piling onto 335 million Americans. Or almost $100K debt per capita, while most of America cannot put together a bit of cash in an emergency.
Thanks for the post. You are irritating the irritable.
That is an interesting comparison, Germany was the invader, Germany was the aggressor (of course if you forget that Soviet Union invade Poland with Germany and then Lithuanian Latvia and Estonia), Germany was isolated from most of the rest of the world, Germany’s enemies like Russia were supplied by US(hummm), and eventually Germany was worn down by years of war, losses of men and material they could not replace and could not compete with its enemies.
Yup I see some comparisons there maybe not what you see though
So invading a country, razing cities, stealing children, rape, murder, castration of POWs, aaaannnnnd this is upholding Christian values?
Hummmm interesting take
Good rant, I feel exactly the same, most are trolls I imagine, but some actually believe their bilge
“And unconditionally surrendered their country to Putin?”
As Finland and Austria did during the Cold War, as they did with Stalin.
Do they have regrets about that, considering that both countries ended up free and prosperous?
Do they with agree with the Neocons that dragging their countries and the rest of the world into World War 3 would have been preferable?
Oh, so living on their knees under Stalin's totalitarian dictatorship was a grand thing, eh?
“Oh, so living on their knees under Stalin’s totalitarian dictatorship was a grand thing, eh?”
Funny, I visited both of those countries (Austria and Finland) during the Cold War, and NEITHER had anything at all to do with Stalin or the Soviet Union.
Were you even alive during the Cold War?
Hey, that Austria/Finland/Stalin/USSR reference was YOURS, bub, and not mine.
“Hey, that Austria/Finland/Stalin/USSR reference was YOURS, bub, and not mine.”
I guess you weren’t around then.
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