RE: You have done a better job of ignoring what you don’t want to acknowlege.
I acknowledge what REALITY IS in our current immigration laws. Whether I like what the reality is, is another matter.
RE: Given that understanding, in what country is Kamala Harris a citizen
I will give you a straightforward answer — WHETHER YOU OR I LIKE IT OR NOT, Kamala Harris *IS* a Citizen of the United States because she was born in Oakland California, and by our laws ( again whether you or I like it or not ), that makes her a US CItizen.
The USA ( again whether you or I like it or not ) follows the JUS SOLI system to determine citizenship. What this means is that whoever is born in the U.S. and is subject to its jurisdiction is automatically granted U.S. citizenship.
It’s right there in the First paragraph of Section 1 in the 14th Amendment. To wit: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside”
Do I like it? NO. Do I want it changed? YES. But as I said, it’s not a matter of whether I like it or not, its a matter of what the law AS GENERALLY ACCEPTED BY OUR GOVERNMENT is.
RE: and where do her allegiances lie?
By allegiance, do you mean loyalty or committment? Well, THAT I cannot answer for sure because I can’t read her mind. I can only judge her by her actions, which tells me that her allegiance is to a leftist cause, not to the betterment of America. Well, so is Joe Biden, so are many Democrats in Congress.
But that is besides the point. The larger point is does a person’s circumstances of birth qualify or disqualify him/her from being President?
RE: do you ascribe to idea the state (US) owns foreign kids by virtue of being born here?
I don’t understand what you mean by “own”. There are no legal slaves in America, so nobody owns anybody. But if by “own” you mean “legal status” — do I believe that foreign kids born in the US are US Citizens?
I will give you a qualified answer and not beat around the bush -— THE ANSWER IS YES ACCORDING TO OUR LAW.
Do I ascribe or support that idea? My answer is NO. But as I wrote above, my liking or not liking the law does not change the FACT of the law. I want it changed, but as it stands now, Kamala Harris was born an American Citizen BY LAW.
RE: I ask because the Constitution framers were very serious over allegiance leading up to our Revolutionary War, which we seem to be Hell-bent on revisiting.
That is why I believe, they used the term — NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
The issue at hand is this — Does being born an American Citizen ( as Kamala Harris was ), make her a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN?
There seems to be a different understanding between simply being born an American Citizen and being born a NATURAL BORN AMERICAN CITIZEN.
These are the possibilities:
* Being born an American, automatically means you are a Natural Born Citizen, i.e., an American Citizen born in the USA is NECESSARILY a Natural Born Citizen. This has come to be the DE FACTO understanding today ( again, whether we like it or not ).
* Being born an American, DOES NOT necessarily mean you are a Natural Born Citizen. You have to meet additional familial requirements to be considered Natural Born.
That is why I ask the questions in Post #59 above. Now please answer them so that I can see where you’re coming from.
Your arguments only work when you leave out the large type. The connective word 'and' makes it necessary to be true for the third clause to be true. Parents on passports should be the clue about jurisdiction, and you skipped it every single time.
Citizens are subject to the jurisdiction thereof. They have addresses here.
Visitors have to ask permission. Like a visa.
It comes down to the McCain decision in previous post. A Natural Born Citizen is someone born of US citizen parents (who are subject to the jurisdiction thereof).