Southern Baptists boot Saddleback Church for having a female pastor

AP via NBC News ^ | Feb 21, 2023 | The Associate Press

[9YearLurker]

Ah, no. You’re the one who is doggedly after and repeatedly attempting to insult someone who just has a different point of view.

[daniel1212]

SBC expels Saddleback, 4 other churches that have female pastors - https://www.christianpost.com/news/sbc-decides-to-expel-saddleback-church-over-female-pastors.html “As stated in the Baptist Faith and Message Article VI, the SBC holds to the belief that the office of pastor is limited to men as qualified by Scripture,” stated Wellman. “These churches have been valued, cooperating churches for many years, and this decision was not made lightly. However, we remain committed to upholding the theological convictions of the SBC and maintaining unity among its cooperating churches.”

[daniel1212]

Stuck in 1964.

Rather, faithful to what the Creator ordained from the beginning, and only affirmed since. No contraception either. nor woman's lib that it fostered, but neither treating the women as chattel.

[daniel1212]

1 Timothy 2:11-12, where Paul writes, “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” Some interpret this passage as a prohibition against women holding leadership positions in the church, while others argue that it is a specific instruction to a particular community and should not be applied universally.

Contextually Non-sense! If Scripture taught women pastors, i would defend it, but such flagrant eisegesis as this provokes correction fro me. The reason given in what follows in 1 Timothy 2 pertains to both creation and the Fall: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." (1 Timothy 2:13-15)

Note that "childbearing "in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety is a synonym for being saved by effectual faith, in which the normative role of women is that of bearing and raising children, for which the women is nobly uniquely designed and fitted for. Thus the devil perverts it. n Romans 16, Paul greets several women by name, including Phoebe, who is described as a “deacon” (diakonos)

Actually she is contextually described as a servant, which is what diakonos basically means, one who waits on others, thus though also translated minister, it is translated "servant in, "But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister [diakonos];" (Matthew 20:26) "But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister [diakonos]:" (Mark 10:43) "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant [diakonos].' (Matthew 23:10-11) And in Mar_9:35, Joh_12:26, Mat_22:12-13 (2), Joh_2:5, Joh_2:9.

Which is consistent with the context (which extrapolative egalitarian ignore). "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business [things] she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also." (Romans 16:2) The instructions for deacons are clearly that of men. "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.' (1 Timothy 3:12)

That women helped the Lord Jesus and Paul is not in dispute, but not in leadership. And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered [diakoneō] unto him of their substance. (Luke 8:3) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. (Philippians 4:3) Thank God for such!

Similarly, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul discusses the practice of women prophesying in church and wearing head coverings while doing so. This suggests that women had an active role in worship and ministry in the early church.

Which would establish what? How can anyone read support for women pastors? All this testifies to is meetings akin to when "Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances." (Exodus 15:20)

Overall, Paul’s teachings on female leaders in the church are complex and open to interpretation. While there are passages that appear to limit women’s roles in church leadership, there are also passages that suggest a more inclusive view.

Wrong they are only open to feminist interpretation by ignoring context and engaging in sophistry. See http://peacebyjesus.net/womenpastors.html , by the grace of God.

[metmom]

There’s a big difference between women being active in many roles in the church, including exercising the gifts of the Spirit, such s prophecy, and actually being in a position g authority and leadership over men.

Paul is quite clear that women are not to be in a position of spiritual authority over men and the reason GOD gives us in Scripture, is that women are more easily deceived than men.

[Elsie]

Their choice I guess.

[Elsie]

I think there just might be a wee bit of difference between:

Thus sayeth the Lord...

and...

...I do not permit...

 

---

1 Timothy 2:11-12

Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

 

---

Why is it that the SILENCE part never seems to be part of the SCRIPTURE!!! that gets stressed here?

[Elsie]

One side is wrong.

Hasn't it ALWAYS been this way??

---

As I was walking across a bridge one day; I saw a man standing outside the railing, about to jump off.

 

So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

 

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

 

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

 

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"

 

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

 

-- Emo Phillips

[Elsie]

Women aren’t to be pastors but they can teach and edify of course.

Hard to do any of these things if they are COMMANDED to be silent in the church.

[Elsie]

Martha Martha...

[Elsie]

“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.”

Ca-ching...

[Elsie]

They start to think that they can play around with the rules God has set down because well “they can”.

Then there are others that think they can do that with rules men have come up with.

[Salvavida]

I don’t read any of your posts anymore, but please, feel free to waste your time.

[Elsie]

I will therefore that men pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.

I haven't been to an SBC church in decades.

Do the men there uniformly lift their hands during prayer?

[Elsie]

It all boils down to the “Church” being under the authority of 1 man, that is Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 3:4-9 niv

4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?
5 What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 
6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 
7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 
8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 
9 For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

---

GALATIANS 3:26-28

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

[Elsie]

I read all of yours that show up.

Who knows; I might learn something.

[ifinnegan]

Read the Bible.

Do you think Priscilla or Phoebe used sign language?

[unread]

"I haven't been to an SBC church in decades. Do the men there uniformly lift their hands during prayer?"

Sorry, I don't know. I'm not Southern Baptist.