Posted on 11/17/2022 3:25:38 AM PST by C19fan
Doubts have today been raised over whether a missile which hit Poland earlier this week really was a Ukrainian rocket gone haywire, with US and European officials calling for further investigation as President Zelensky continues to insist it was a Russian weapon.
Polish President Andrzej Duda and NATO leaders yesterday played down suspicions that Moscow was behind the S-300 missile which hit the town of Przewodow on Tuesday, killing two, insisting it was 'highly probable' that it had come from Kyiv's forces – meaning the allies will not respond militarily, which could have sparked WW3.
But President Zelensky yesterday insisted that he has 'no doubt that it was not our missile' based on military intelligence, and accused Ukraine's Western allies of blocking his investigators from inspecting the crash site or being part of the probe into exactly what had happened.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
I am talking about this March obviously.
Hey, instead of blowing up the whole world, lets just buy Poland a new tractor.
Can’t see who pushed the arm/launch mechanism but IIANM western (US) spy sattelites see every missle launch over the theater and know the location.
No need for u2/sr71/aurora except to pretend aforementioned systems do not exist.
That creaky old Soviet here drone that crashed in the woods? It was weird, but really a nothingburger.
Er, Soviet-era. I hate spellchecker.
CUDOS FOR ASKING THE QUESTION!
ONCE AGAIN OUR INVESTIGATIVE MSM DOES NOT ADEQUATELY PRESENT INFORMATION FROM NEWS STORY. REGARDING BOTH ARTICLE #4 & #5 OF NATO’s TREATY ARTICLE 4 EXPLAINED IN CONTEXT OF RUSSIA-UKRAINE.
As Zelensky apparently is already sure what happened:
i. Why does he need to send his investigators to inspect the crash site?
i. President Zelenski needed to determine if photos that appeared on “Facebook” were the actual photos of the 1-2 missiles that landed in Poland.
ii. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4.
ii. What is NATO’s Article 4 and why has it been invoked?
Article 4 is one of the shortest sections of the North Atlantic Treaty. Its entire text reads as follows:
“The parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened.”
**In other words, if a NATO member invokes Article 4, it triggers an organization-wide consultation.
It happens when, in the official opinion of AT LEAST ONE member state’s government, the “territorial integrity” (i.e., borders), “political independence” (freedom from external political influence) or “security” of a NATO member is UNDER THREAT.
Thursday, 24 February 2022: Several outlets reported Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4. A consultation will follow, during which member states will consider the best course of action.
REMEMBER: Article 4 has been invoked several times in NATO’s history
Latvia, Lithuania and Poland previously invoked NATO’s Article 4 in March 2014 in response to the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation.
The same three NATO states considered invoking Article 4 in November 2021 following the migrant crisis at the Polish-Belarusian border.
Why do you think they sent it there?
In general, avoiding World War III is a good idea.
It’s just Croatia. Savages.
Croats can all burn as far as I’m concerned.
Regardless of all the aspersions being cast on this thread, this is a purpose-full response of NATO Treaty protocol North Atlantic Treaty Organisation for 30 NATO nations.
ONCE AGAIN INVESTIGATIVE MSM DOES NOT ADEQUATELY PRESENT INFORMATION. REGARDING BOTH ARTICLE #4 & #5 OF NATO’s TREATY ARTICLE 4 EXPLAINED REGARDING THE CONTEXT OF RUSSIA-UKRAINE.
i. Why does he need to send his investigators to inspect the crash site?
President Zelenski needed to determine if photos that appeared on “Facebook” were the actual photos of the 1-2 missiles that landed in Poland.
ii. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4.
What is NATO’s Article 4 and why has it been invoked?
Article 4 is one of the shortest sections of the North Atlantic Treaty. Its entire text reads as follows:
“The parties will consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened.”
**In other words, if a NATO member invokes Article 4, it triggers an organization-wide consultation.
It happens when, in the official opinion of AT LEAST ONE member state’s government, the “territorial integrity” (i.e., borders), “political independence” (freedom from external political influence) or “security” of a NATO member is UNDER THREAT.
Thursday, 24 February 2022: Several outlets reported Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4. A consultation will follow, during which member states will consider the best course of action.
REMEMBER: Article 4 has been invoked several times in NATO’s history
Latvia, Lithuania and Poland previously invoked NATO’s Article 4 in March 2014 in response to the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation.
The same three NATO states considered invoking Article 4 in November 2021 following the migrant crisis at the Polish-Belarusian border.
Are we all so stupid? I don't think so.
Chris Pleasance is asserting a conspiracy where none exists.
- Given that Poland has been arguing for greater military involvement against Russia by NATO for months now, this was the perfect opportunity for them to get it. But they haven’t. That strongly supports the missile not being Russia’s.
- As far as I’m aware, Russia has no S300 missile defense batteries on range of the crash site, whereas Ukraine does.
- It definitely wasn’t a Russian Kalibr aimed at Poland, because otherwise the tractor in all the photos would have been vaporized on impact. This further supports that it was from a less explosive missile from an S300.
- All photos of debris that have been attributed to the crashed missile are consistent with an S300.
The cynical part of me is saying that the NATO nations are nonetheless doing whatever they can to keep the flow of weapons going to Ukraine without getting themselves involved on an official nation-to-nation level, so as to bleed away at Russia using Ukrainians only as their proverbial cannon fodder at choice.
The desperation with which Zelensky is acting in this incident, however, seems to indicate Ukraine’s position is so dire at the moment that direct Western involvement against Russia is now a necessity.
NATO has been remarkably incurious about it. Which indicates it may well have originated in Ukrainian-controlled territory. But who knows for sure?
Did anyone intentionally target Zagreb? Or was it just an old relic some guys decided to fire off and it went haywire? Weird thing happen in wars. People do strange things. This may well be the case. Anyway, whatever it was, whoever launched the thing, it was pretty much a nothing burger no one cares about.
The Croats were rightly horrified that it flew such a distance over two other NATO countries for such a long time with no response or even warning from NATO.
“The desperation with which Zelensky is acting in this incident, however, seems to indicate Ukraine’s position is so dire at the moment that direct Western involvement against Russia is now a necessity.”
Despite the petty aspersions being cast in this thread, this is a purpose-full response of NATO Treaty protocol for North Atlantic Treaty Organisation for 30 NATO nations.
ONCE AGAIN INVESTIGATIVE MSM COMPLETE FAILURE TO INFORM.
Thursday, 24 February 2022: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4. A consultation will follow, during which member states will consider the best course of action.
REMEMBER: Article 4 has been invoked several times in NATO’s history
Latvia, Lithuania and Poland previously invoked NATO’s Article 4 in March 2014 in response to the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation.
The same three NATO states considered invoking Article 4 in November 2021 following the migrant crisis at the Polish-Belarusian border.
“President Zelenski needed to determine if photos that appeared on “Facebook” were the actual photos of the 1-2 missiles that landed in Poland.”
According to Zelensky’s own version of events, he’s not even a party to this incident: only Russia as the aggressor and Poland as the victim.
If the victim (who has been arguing for greater action against the aggressor anyway) says that it wasn’t the aggressor’s missile, that puts him in a bit of a pickle.
And your entire spiel about NATO Article 4 didn’t even answer Mr Radical’s original question (”Why does he think he has any right (or the need...) to send his investigators into Poland anyway?”), because Ukraine isn’t part of NATO. All the talk about Article 4 is separate from the question of why Zelensky feels he is entitled to send investigators to Poland.
“Thursday, 24 February 2022: Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland “and other Allies” agreed to hold consultations under the auspices of NATO’s Article 4. A consultation will follow, during which member states will consider the best course of action.”
Why are you mentioning an event from February as though it has ANYTHING to do with an errant Ukrainian missile in November? You’re clutching at straws.
NATO probably did it as a trigger or a distraction.
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