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Re: "Neither Muscovy nor Ukraine have a history dating back 3000 years." News to me. Ukraine and the north Black Sea coast were the primary foot path for Homo Sapiens into Europe that began around 40,000 years ago. [...]

What you describe in your post is prehistory.

No polities even remotely identifiable with Muscovy or Ukraine were in existence 3,000 years ago. It would be madness to attempt to establish a historical claim to independent statehood or the like based upon such paleontological artifacts.

Having said that: I am firmly in the camp supporting the right of existence of a sovereign Ukraine in its borders of 1991.

I suggest that you discard your ironic use of the pet phrase "news to me."

All said in the spirit of rational and calm discourse (though not without a modicum of humorous ribbing).

Regards,

You need to go back and read the original post that started this discussion.

I also listed the Mongols, the Tartars, the Ottomans, the Austrian empire, and the Polish empire.

My obvious point - when was Ukraine ever an independent self-governing nation with well defined borders before 1990-2020?

"News to me" is not ironic. It is the polite way to point out that I have more factual knowledge about a subject than someone else does.