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To: freeandfreezing; All; delta7; Chunga85

That’s the best you can do?

OK, here’s some “Russian propaganda” on war crimes and propaganda below. How do I know its Russian? It’s easy! It contradicts you and your Neocon sources. Actually, it’s Swiss (The original has lots of links to source documents, not that it would matter to you), but them there clever Ruskis must have learned how to wear lederhosen and yodel:

War Crimes

In terms of war crimes, the current situation is in stark contrast to claims by Western media and Western governments, as most war crimes have been committed not by the Russian side, but by the Ukrainian side. This includes many major war crimes blamed on the Russian side, such as the infamous Bucha massacre, the Mariupol theater bombing, or the Kramatorsk railway station bombing. Other supposed Russian war crimes were simply made up by Ukrainian officials, such as allegations of systematic rape and mass looting.

Yet other events were taken out of context, such as the alleged Russian bombing of Ukrainian schools and hospitals or shopping centers, which in almost all cases had been turned into Ukrainian military bases or ammunition depots. In other cases, civilian buildings supposedly destroyed by Russian missiles were in fact destroyed by Ukrainian air-defense missiles (e.g. in Kiev) or Ukrainian artillery missiles (e.g. in Borodyanka northwest of Kiev).

In yet other cases, Ukrainian forces, poorly disguised as Russian forces, executed Ukrainian civilians that welcomed the false “Russian liberators”; Western media then presented footage of the Ukrainian execution as a Russian war crime. In even other cases, the Ukrainian bombing of Donbas cities was presented as the Russian bombing of Ukrainian cities.

In the case of Bucha, the bodies seen in the streets were victims of Ukrainian shelling of residential areas during the Russian occupation and retreat, and of subsequent Ukrainian executions of “collaborators” (hence the many white armbands, a sign of friendly status during Russian occupation). The bodies were then presented as victims of a supposed “Russian massacre”.

Ironically, the Ukrainian commander who oversaw the Bucha massacre had previously been a Russian intelligence asset who had built up “neonazi groups” in Russia and Belarus. The international “marketing” of the Bucha massacre as a supposed Russian war crime appears to have been coordinated by British intelligence, similar to numerous chemical false-flag attacks in Syria.

In the case of the Mariupol maternity clinic, Western media claimed it was a Russian airstrike, but they could not provide any evidence supporting this hypothesis, and witnesses at the clinic said there was no airstrike. Yet the incident remains unresolved, and both a Russian attack (possibly targeting a nearby Ukrainian base) or a Ukrainian operation or deception remain possible.

In the case of the recent Kremenchuk shopping center incident, the Ukrainian government claimed a Russian missile hit a shopping center with 1,000 people inside; in reality, the Russian missiles hit an adjacent machinery and military plant and the shopping center was either closed or mostly empty at the time of the strike. However, one of the Russian missiles did hit the railroad tracks between the machinery plant and the shopping center, which then caught fire and burnt down.

Documented, confirmed or potential Russian war crimes currently consist mainly of the shooting and killing of civilians that approached Russian checkpoints or military columns, on foot or by car, although the context of these events is sometimes unclear (e.g. if there were any warning shots). There are also allegations of several other crimes against individual Russian soldiers that are currently difficult to verify independently.

On the Ukrainian side, documented war crimes encompass mass torture and mass executions, both against prisoners of war and their own people (if deemed pro-Russian collaborators or sympathizers), including several cases of decapitation; the military use of civilian infrastructure (including schools) and civilians as “human shields”; and large-scale shelling of residential areas behind front lines, especially against the city of Donetsk (in one case even hitting a maternity clinic).

Moreover, several Western journalists, whose death was blamed on the Russian side, were in fact killed by the Ukrainian side (in friendly-fire incidents). In another case, it was claimed Russian forces “executed a Ukrainian journalist in cold blood”; in reality, the journalist, wearing a blue (military) armband instead of his press jacket and being accompanied by an armed friend in military clothing, crossed the front line by car to retrieve a drone in a forest near a Russian position.

False claims of major Russian war crimes (i.e. atrocity propaganda) have been used by Western governments to justify sanctions against Russia and weapons supplies to Ukraine. The heavy use of such atrocity propaganda is not a new phenomenon, of course: important recent examples include the US/NATO wars against Yugoslavia and against Syria. However, in the case of Ukraine, NATO countries cannot currently use atrocity propaganda to justify a direct military intervention.

Propaganda and Censorship

On the Russian side, propaganda efforts depict the Ukraine war primarily as a continuation of the Second World War or Great Patriotic War against National Socialist Germany, focusing on the supposed “denazification” of Ukraine. At the same time, Russian President Putin has criticized Soviet leaders for having made Ukraine a quasi-independent political entity in the first place. Thus, Russian propaganda combines elements referring to both the former Soviet Union and the earlier Russian Tsarist empire.

Overall, the “Nazi narrative” appears to be quite effective, both in Russia and in the West, in part because many key aspects of the Second World War and NS Germany still cannot be questioned, neither in Russia nor in the sphere of Anglo-American countries, which during the Second World War were allied with Stalin’s Soviet Union against Hitler’s Germany.

On the NATO side, propaganda efforts mainly focus on Russian aggression, supposed Russian war crimes and supposed Ukrainian successes. NATO propaganda is produced by multiple PR firms, coordinated by intelligence services, and distributed to Western media outlets by the three global news agencies AP (American), AFP (French) and Reuters (British-Canadian). The total number of NATO propaganda messages in Western media is likely approaching about one thousand.

In addition, both sides have introduced significant media censorship. In NATO countries, this includes the removal of Russian and pro-Russian media outlets from major Internet search engines Google, Microsoft Bing and even DuckDuckGo. Furthermore, British security state operatives were caught trying to suppress independent media coverage of the Ukraine war.

Nevertheless, independent media outlets and uncensored Telegram channels have continued to provide reliable real-time footage and analysis of the situation in Ukraine.


84 posted on 07/19/2022 4:12:55 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: achilles2000

Try this, loads of “ reality”. Comprehensive list of western MSM misinformation and lies.

https://www.conservapedia.com/Russia-Ukraine_war#Battle_of_Mariupol


86 posted on 07/19/2022 5:01:58 PM PDT by delta7
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To: achilles2000
LOL, you really do get a D- for propaganda skills.

Your supposedly neutral Swiss source, for which you provide no link, repeats a wholly discredited Russian propaganda talking point:

"In the case of the recent Kremenchuk shopping center incident, the Ukrainian government claimed a Russian missile hit a shopping center with 1,000 people inside; in reality, the Russian missiles hit an adjacent machinery and military plant and the shopping center was either closed or mostly empty at the time of the strike"

In reality the missile hit the shopping center and killed a number of civilians. The machinery plant was basically undamaged.

Your propaganda is pathetic. I wouldn't be surprised if the "Swiss" source is from a domain ending in .ru

88 posted on 07/19/2022 6:07:09 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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