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To: Dr. Franklin
The precedential holding in the Supreme Court case of Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) is the law of the land until the Constitution is amended, or the Court issues a superseding opinion. That is not weak; that is the law of the land. Rightly or wrongly, it holds that secession is unconstitutional.

It's more accurate to state that precedent from SCOTUS is only binding to the extent that SCOTUS says it is, AND enforces compliance with that precedent in the lower courts.

All other courts are lower courts. All SCOTUS precedents are binding on all lower courts.

And it is enforceable to strike down any repugnant legislation. For example, for the last fifty years, Roe has been invoked to strike down legislation infringing upon the constitutional right to abortion which emanates from a penumbra. Obergefell would strike down any law interfeing with your right to marry Don Lemon.

Texas v. White would render any attempt at secession legally null and void.

I am also aware the the "constitutional standard" for warrantless arrests set in Henry v. United States, which were limited to cases where a police officer witnessed a minor offense committed in his presence, or had "reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing" a felony, is routinely violated on a daily basis in the courts of the U.S., and the last time I checked, SCOTUS has never overruled that precedent.

Henry v. United States 361 U.S. 98, 100 (1959)

The statutory authority of FBI officers and agents to make felony arrests without a warrant is restricted to offenses committed "in their presence" or to instances where they have "reasonable grounds to believe that the person to be arrested has committed or is committing" a felony. 18 U. S. C. ยง 3052. The statute states the constitutional standard, for it is the command of the Fourth Amendment that no warrants for either searches or arrests shall issue except "upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

FBI agents are Federal special agents. The statutory authority under which they may make an arrest without a warrant is set forth in the Federal statutes. Henry only applies to arrests by Federal authorities.

The statutory authority governing state or local authorities would be State statutes.

https://www.loc.gov/item/usrep374023/

Ker v. California, 374 U.S. 23, 33-35 (1963).

The States are not thereby precluded from developing workable rules governing arrests, searches and seizures to meet "the practical demands of effective criminal investigation and law enforcement" in the States, provided that those rules do not violate the constitutional proscription of unreasonable searches and seizures and the concomitant command that evidence so seized is inadmissible against one who has standing to complain. See Jones v. United States, 362 U. S. 257 (1960). Such a standard implies no derogation of uniformity in applying federal constitutional guarantees but is only a recognition that conditions and circumstances vary just as do investigative and enforcement techniques.

[...]

Applying this federal constitutional standard we proceed to examine the entire record including the findings of California's courts to determine whether the evidence seized from petitioners was constitutionally admissible under the circumstances of this case.

II.

The evidence at issue, in order to be admissible, must be the product of a search incident to a lawful arrest, since the officers had no search warrant. The lawfulness of the arrest without warrant, in turn, must be based upon probable cause, which exists "where 'the facts and circumstances within their [the officers'] knowledge and of which they had reasonably trustworthy information [are] sufficient in themselves to warrant a man of reasonable caution in the belief that an offense has been or is being committed." Brinegar v. United States, 338 U. S. 160, 175-176 (1949), quoting from Carroll v. United States, 267 U. S. 132, 162 (1925); accord, People v. Fischer, 49 Cal. 2d 442, 317 P. 2d 967 (1957); Bompensiero v. Superior Court, 44 Cal. 2d 178, 231 P. 2d 250 (1955). The information within the knowledge of the officers at the time they arrived at the Kers' apartment, as California's courts specifically found, clearly furnished grounds for a reasonable belief that petitioner George Ker had committed and was committing the offense of possession of marijuana.

And it is readily apparent that not all state and local police are required to have knowledge of a felony; just a reasonable belief that an offense has been or is being committed is sufficient.

Are you aware of any other court opinions that you have not read carefully, if at all?

180 posted on 06/23/2022 10:11:59 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: woodpusher
FBI agents are Federal special agents. The statutory authority under which they may make an arrest without a warrant is set forth in the Federal statutes. Henry only applies to arrests by Federal authorities.
The statutory authority governing state or local authorities would be State statutes.


Since SCOTUS ruled that the federal "statute states the constitutional standard" for Fourth Amendment warrantless arrests, any state statute failing to meet that articulated standard is null and void, or do you think that statutes can trump the U.S. Constitution? In 1959, this was well settled law.

Ker v. California, 374 U.S. 23, 33-35 (1963).

The only legal issue in Ker was whether or not the police were legally in the apartment where they found the brick of marijuana. Since the cops found the brick of marijuana in the defendants' apartment, they rightfully concluded that they had witnessed it in the defendants possession and arrested them for a crime occurring in their presence. The case is not inconsistent with Henry v. United States, 361 U.S. 98, 100 (1959) in any way, shape or form. Nothing in Ker suggests that any law enforcement officer can arrest a person for a minor crime not witnessed to be occurring in his/her presence. That is quite different from a police officer arriving after the event, taking the side of one party against the other and usurping the role of a magistrate to arrest someone for an offense which is not a felony in violation of Henry.

And it is readily apparent that not all state and local police are required to have knowledge of a felony; just a reasonable belief that an offense has been or is being committed is sufficient.

Wrong. According to both Henry and Ker to arrest for a crime which is not a felony, the police officer must witness a crime occur in his/her presence. The standard was not simply "probable cause", but also had a witnessing component, which is now being omitted contrary to SCOTUS precedent for minor offenses. That actually used to taught in U.S. law schools and appeared in case books with specific mention of domestic disputes until the 1980's.
186 posted on 06/24/2022 6:49:35 AM PDT by Dr. Franklin ("A republic, if you can keep it." )
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