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To: DiogenesLamp

>> The Secretary of war had been telling the people of South Carolina that all forts in their domain would be turned over to them. There was no “insurrection.” <<

So, a SecDef speaking out of turn is justification for the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of people?

>> No, he f***ing did *NOT* send “supply ships.” He sent f***ing WARSHIPS. <<

You can’t seriously be so ridiculous as to expect that supply ships aren’t defended when sailing into hostile territory?

>> You are brainwashed. Abraham Lincoln called for the passage of the Corwin Amendment which would have made slavery permanently legal in the United States. <<

Lincoln did NOT call for the Corwin amendment. He consented not to oppose it, on the grounds that it had no effect on the Constitution, which, as a conservative, he believed respected states’ rights. This, thus, provides no counter-evidence to all the other positions he took to limit the spread of slavery. You’re only pointing out the utter folly of the neoconfederate insanity about “states’ rights.” The reality is it was the Confederacy which wanted to force slavery on the new territories, and enlist every state in helping it maintain its obscene oppression.

>> Why? The Slaves produced 72% of the total revenue for the Federal government in 1860. Lincoln knew this and wanted that slave money to continue coming in. <<

Well, Lincoln didn’t oppose the tariff reductions of 1857... and soon-to-be confederate states only generated half of the customs, so nonsense.

>> More brainwashing... Slaves were valued at approximately $100,000 dollars in modern currency, and there was nothing in the arid west that could produce a profit sufficient to make it worthwhile to send slaves into the west.<<

You’re arguing that they what they plain and simply did, because you don’t believe it served their economoic interests, ignoring the simple fact that they fought like bloody Hell to force Utah, New Mexico (including Arizona), Kansas, Nebraska (including Wyoming) and California to become slave states. In fact, that was the real proximal cause of the civil war: the expectation that with the election of Lincoln, they couldn’t expand slavery into the West.

>> This is more brainwashing, but i’ve already given you enough to process and so I don’t want to pile on more before you’ve had a chance to digest what you’ve been told so far. <<

Wait... you’re leaving now, after squabbling over Anderson? (I only meant to assert he wasn’t some Northern zealot with no respect for the South. By the way, I forget the name of his superior, but I wasn’t referring to Lincoln. Instead, it was a general who ended up fighting for the Confederacy. Again... no Northern zealot.


139 posted on 05/24/2022 5:33:39 PM PDT by dangus (I had some sympathies for some of Russia's positions... until they started a G-d-damned war.)
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To: dangus
So, a SecDef speaking out of turn is justification for the wholesale slaughter of tens of thousands of people?

The direct death toll of the civil war is put at 750,000 people, and this death toll was not caused by the Secretary of War "speaking out of turn." It was caused by Abraham Lincoln launching a war of conquest against people who did not want to remain under the control of Washington DC.

You can’t seriously be so ridiculous as to expect that supply ships aren’t defended when sailing into hostile territory?

Those weren't supply ships, they were warships, and their orders were to attack the confederates if the confederates resisted their efforts to put supplies into Fort Sumter. (which they were absolutely going to do.)

The "Star of the West" was a supply ship, and even at that, the government had secretly loaded it up with troops and munitions intending to reinforce Fort Sumter.

Lincoln did NOT call for the Corwin amendment. He consented not to oppose it, on the grounds that it had no effect on the Constitution, which, as a conservative, he believed respected states’ rights.

Announcing he would not oppose it gives the green light to party members to vote for it. Lincoln went further. He wrote to all the governors of the seceded states informing them that the Corwin Amendment had passed the congress and was now in the process of being ratified by the states.

He was operating under the mistaken impression that the only thing they cared about was protecting slavery. The Corwin Amendment was not successful because the Southern states wanted to control their own economic policies and this amendment did not offer that.

This, thus, provides no counter-evidence to all the other positions he took to limit the spread of slavery.

There was never going to be any spread of slavery. It was economically unfeasible. The repeated assertion of the "spread of slavery" was just a psyops tactic to get people to worry about slavery, but the real goal was to limit the Southern states ability to obtain allies that would vote with them in congress.

Nobody really cared about the slaves. (except people who were regarded as "kooks" during this time period.)

The reality is it was the Confederacy which wanted to force slavery on the new territories, and enlist every state in helping it maintain its obscene oppression.

You have been taught nonsense. Here is a modern map of cotton growing.

The cotton grown in West Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, and California can only be grown as a consequence of modern irrigation systems which did not exist in 1860 and would not exist for another 40 years at the earliest.

There would have been *NO* expansion of slavery. That was just a lie told to keep political power.

Well, Lincoln didn’t oppose the tariff reductions of 1857... and soon-to-be confederate states only generated half of the customs, so nonsense.

They generated 72% of the total. They had 1/4th the citizens of the Northern states, but they were producing nearly 3/4ths of the total tax revenue for the nation.

You’re arguing that they what they plain and simply did, because you don’t believe it served their economoic interests, ignoring the simple fact that they fought like bloody Hell to force Utah, New Mexico (including Arizona), Kansas, Nebraska (including Wyoming) and California to become slave states.

Why? Ask yourself why they would want states that cannot actually make use of slavery to become part of the Union, and that would vote with the existing slave states?

144 posted on 05/25/2022 10:29:19 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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