Posted on 05/21/2022 2:02:56 PM PDT by NoLibZone
*lickers
It’s better than being an Ultra-Moron..
It appears that over Ukraine there is a schism in Free Republic, and anyone who dares say one word for Ukraine is a Dem infiltrator, and anyone who dares say one critical word about Ukraine is a Putin bot.
This is stupid. It’s not how mature people discuss things.
Ukraine is a complex, many-faceted issue, and waging a war of the battling shibboleths is not illuminating, but obfuscating.
I am for supporting Ukraine, not because Ukraine is a shining beacon of democracy or Zelensky is a paradigm of integrity. It’s not and he’s not. Ukraine should be supported in order to contain Putin’s territorial ambitions, which include re-absorbing all the former Republics, many of which are now in NATO, and eating Poland and Hungary for dessert. This is not speculation. He has said so in his infamous 5,000-word essay. You can look it up. And that is a sure-fire recipe for a nuclear confrontation.
But according to you, I’m a Zelenskyy sycophant and a Dem infiltrator, and I’m supposed to call you a Putinbot.
If this is what my favorite forum has degenerated to, I’ll have to give it a pass from now on. But I trust that this is not the case, and there are still some adults in the room, capable of dialogue without name-calling. If that trust proves fatuous, then that’s that.
Little late for you to be cncerned about infighting , and you go after me and deflect from my post which destroys the veracity of this thread while you ignore the personal attacks against others here, as they portray them as if they support Putin. Hypocrisy.
Taking it all the way back, the “Putinista”, “Putin supporter” attacks came first.
1.) Many here don’t support Putin, nor the invasion. I don’t. But I also don’t support Zelensky either, because of Soros’ ties to him, funding his rise to power. I also don’t support Zelensky because of the WEF ties to him, all of the corruption in Ukraine still ongoing under Zelensky’s nose, he shutting down all opposition parties (painting them with a broad brush), shutting down all opposition media, effectively ending free speech and free elections. It’s a dictatorship there now under him.
So two dictatorships; So I support neither.
Thus I primarily focus on Biden using Ukraine as a shiny object to deflect attention away from his abysmal record at home, how Dems are all-in on Ukraine, the U.S. being 30 trillion in debt, we don’t protect our own borders, etc. And I also focus on how this is Europe’s problem, they can all together handle Russia, they’ve mooched off of the U.S. for too long, and Russia won’t attack a NATO member.
But I get attacked anyway sayimg I support Putin when its clear I DON’T and it happens time and again to others as well.
Try getting the usual suspects here to attack Biden, Soros, Klaus, etc. They won’t during discussions about the war. They’ll deflect back to attacking others calling them Putinistas, etc, because they use liberal Maddow style tactics. Their actions define them.
True conservatives go after Biden, Soros, Klaus, etc. We should all know this.
True conservatives don’t attack people here when they do go after those people but it has been occuring, so spare me your fake outrage.
Biden is using the war in Ukraine as a shiny object to deflect attention away from his abysmal record at home and people fall for it anyway.
2.) The Founders argued in favor of alliances that were short-term, issue-specific, and in our interests, not unending warmongering with NATO which has went rogue in that it bowed before Odumba, as an example among other warmongering examples, and offensively attacked Liby when no NATO members were threatened and on unproven allegations that Gaddafi was going to kill 10k of his own people. The U.S. is viewed by the world synonymously with NATO and NATO going rogue here and at other times has hurt the standing of the U.S. Around 80% of the world doesn’t support sanctions against Russia and is coming to hate Anerica deeply which is not good and needs to be reversed. NATO withdrawing back to its original size with Russia simultaneously withdrawing its troops back into Russia would help, along with stopping the Bush League wars.
And it isn’t isolationist to be against warmongering repeatedly as in Iraq, then Libya, Syria, Yemen, and now Biden putting boots on the ground in Somalia.
And it certainly isn’t isolationist to demand that Europe quit mooching off the U.S. while they used the money they saved to spend on their people, and take care of their own backyard.
Those who falsely call others isolationists may deflect because they want Empire based upon their track record.
3.) WION, Gravitas Plus: Did NATO push Ukraine into war?
“Ukraine conflict has been ‘westsplained’ enough. On Gravitas Plus, Palki Sharma tells you how Western arrogance & NATO’s expansionism are also to blame, how their actions precipitated the crisis in Ukraine.”
Have a good one!
I ignore the earlier name-callers and focus on the most recent one, which is you. No time to swat flies, I’m just getting to the heart of it. I was equally critical of both factions, not just you.
There are plenty of reasons to be critical of Zelensky and of Ukraine. It’s Eastern Europe, and this is how they roll over there. I’d be happy to see what the evidence is of a Soros connection.
As I’ve already mentioned, my support for Ukraine is based on the reality, that Ukraine, while far from perfect, is that battleground on which CatherPutin the Grate must be defeated and humiliated, if we are to avoid WW III.
But Ukraine is making major progress. Yanukovich was a Kremlin puppet, as is evidenced by the fact that he fled to Moscow in the middle of the night when it came down to it. Poroshenko was a monster. Aside from the corruption, he supported waging war on his own citizens, that is the separatists in the east, and that is monstrous. Zelensky, it seems, was an attempt at reconciliation with Donbas and Donyetz, as well as a would-be reformer. The corruption goes on under his nose, sure. He might possibly have been tainted with it. And yes, he is shutting down all opposition.
But these things have happened before in Ukraine and throughout Eastern Europe. Yeltsin attempted to reform the Soviet Union and keep it together, but while he was pretty brave and heroic, he ended up an ineffectual drunk, and ceded power to Putin, who is Putin. If you have to choose a side to back, back the political neophyte who at least claimed to be for reform over the utterly ruthless tyrant who’s been in power for twenty years and has shut down all opposition long ago.
I would like to understand Zelensky better. On the one hand, he impressed the MAGA King as being sincere about fighting corruption, because he monitored VZ’s actions for several months before making that “perfect phone call” that got him in such hot water. It seems that the bloom is now off the rose, and I’d like to understand that better. As part of my research, I’m watching his hit TV show on Netflix, and listening to a lot of the you-tube expert chatter. But I’d like to also hear the substance of these allegations of his ties to WEF and Soros. If you would be so kind as to post a link?
I’ve listened to Sharma plenty. She has her uses, and gives the India perspective on things. But on this issue she happens to be wrong. NATO never even granted Ukraine’s request to join, which VZ for now has eschewed. The invasion of Ukraine is actually the best argument FOR joining NATO, as Sweden and Finland’s recent applications for membership have proved.
Russia, even in the best of time, is seriously paranoid, going back to Ivan the Terrible. Putin is extra paranoid, because of his delusional non-history and his notion of himself as some great savior of the Slavic nations. He may be reacting to NATO’s increased membership roster, but he’s the reason for it. All the former vassal states and Republics walked away from Russia in 1991, and with the exception of Bialarussia and Kazakhstan’s ruling class, they want no part of Putin. There is a Russo-phonic sliver of separatists in Moldavia, and they are terrified of being Putin’s next meal after he’s gulped down Ukraine, which fortunately he is failing to do.
Excellent post.
I appreciate that.
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