Posted on 05/21/2022 9:27:15 AM PDT by cuz1961
In a prank call
George W. Bush admits
the US broke its promise to Russia not to expand NATO eastwards
because “times have changed”
and the US was “adjusting to the times”.
Important for all nations to know that US agreements have an undisclosed expiry date.
“...because “times have changed”…
It’s funny how we violate all sorts of indian treaties except for those. And those are what keep the majority of the indian nations poor and under the government’s thumb.
The whole indian culture of old needs to go away, just as in the old testament many civilizations’ cultures were wiped out, though many of the people remained and were assimilated into the dominant cultures.
That’s how you get order, and without order you get multiculturalism, which is just another word for chaos.
First they asked him if his refrigerator was running.
Zelensky’s delusional? How so?
Dubya, and what was done under his administration, is what finally drove me from the R party. It was when I first understood the concept of the “uniparty”.
It’s been a while and as far as I’m concerned, the most important take away is this: The two parties are simply the same police force playing “good cop, bad cop” with us. Which one you think is the good cop depends on your world view. But they are not in this for you. They are in this to preserve their uniparty.
It’s why they BOTH hate Trump and are doing all they can to destroy the whole “adult populist” movement.
The other movement is the “child populist” one. That’s the antifa/BLM, etc. crowd.
And Gorbachev himself, who was the recipient of that alleged promise said that it was intended and understood as only a short term promise applicable only to East Germany, and that subsequent NATO expansion didn't violate any alleged agreement.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/
In any case, under the U.S. Constitution, congressional action is required before any agreement made by a President - much less a Secretary of State - is binding. We knew that, the Soviets knew that, and the fact that the alleged promise wasn't put into a formal written agreement or treaty proves it was only a short term promise not intended to bind subsequent Administrations.
It's the same reason we weren't bound by Clinton's signature on Kyoto, or Obama's signature on the Paris Climate Accords.
Agreed. Two sides of the same dirty coin. It’s all theater and they are all actors.
There was no such agreement.
It is ridiculous to claim that a verbal promise made by a Secretary of State, never disclosed, never reduced to writing, and never ratified by the Senate would bind future Administrations. If that were the case, then Obama, Biden, or whomever could make any promises they wanted to other countries, never submit them to Congress, and subsequent President would be required to follow through.
The Constitution itself rejects that.
Nobody believes that, and neither us nor the Soviets believed Baker was binding the U.S. forever. The only reason people are making such a ridiculous argument now is because of their fetish for Vladimir Putin.
“Two delusional losers having a good time while Ukraine burns”
Why are you so invested in Russia?
There was no such agreement
/\
\/
Bush and Baker disagree.
But if YOU say so /-) ,,,,
“...Baker told Gorbechov NATO would not be expanded.”
I never thought I’d see the day whe a large communist contingent posted here.
Time never changed George. Weak politicians like you, chose to ignore the threats to our shores from our northern and southern borders, from other countries like China, Iran, middle eastern nations, and all the countries you, and others have allowed to take advantage of us for decades. Weak politicians like you, let millions of people into this country from all over the world, illegally, and unvetted. Weak and evil politicians like you, put their own political agendas, and desire for power ahead of what is good for the law-abiding Americans who reside here. Gutless Republicans like you, and there’s plenty more where you came from, have sat back and done nothing, and have helped Democrats destroy this country. I hope you all rot in Hell.
Communists lie.
You don’t know what a country is or what an agreement is and your appeal to the authority of Jorge Arbusto is risible.
Here is the interchange about the "promise".
Prankster:
"When, in the early nineties, Secretary of State Baker promised Gorbachev not to spread, not to expand NATO; but this would be completely wrong, especially with the threat that Russia poses now."
President Dubya Bush:
"Yeah, that's right. That's right. Listen, times change. Baker was, ah, you know he was the Secretary of State for my dad, years ago. And so, and the United States must be flexible, adjusting to the times." And that's why you are finding such strong support for your country now.
Prankster:
"No, I mean, I mean, it doesn't matter what Baker really promised Gorbachev in past. We have to see what is going on now. "
President Dubya Bush:
"That's right."
Of course, what Baker may have "promised" in an oral exchange with Gorbechov, is not in any way binding on the United States or Russia. Treaties have to be written, so they are clearly understood. They have to be confirmed by the Senate.
So, it appears former President Bush was agreeing with the obvious. It does not matter what former Secretary of State Baker might have said, or not. We have to deal with the invasion of Ukraine in the here and now.
If you doubt my transcript, go to the video file and listen for yourself. If you find discrepancies, please correct me.
Oh shut up. I’m tired of the neocon spin here. I heard ad nauseam here that no promise was ever made in the first place even before you said this, but what WION dug up refuted that. Then others before you here tried to spin it saying it was “temporary” as you are trying but no one is buying it. Nothing on the audio tapes WION reported on shows it was temporary, so Gorby lied.
As for passed written agreements bound by U.S. law with Native American tribes, the U.S. broke them in the past. Do you think Russia knew that?
When you start on here looking for excuses when words means squat in the eyes of countries we need allies in such as Africa, Asia, South America, etc, because they break their word, you aren’t helping America’s standing, and the U.S. is viewed synonymously with NATO.
Instead, people like you foment mistrust with the U.S.
And no doubt you’ll make excuses for NATO when it offensively bombed Libya on Odumba’s behalf on unproven allegations that Gaddafi was going to kill 10k of his own people and when no NATO member was attacked.
And don’t shill for Bush and stop connivingly using weasel words.
Buzz off. I have no time for people not above board like you.
WOW
And Russia promised to respect Ukraine’s borders. How did that work out in Crimea and Donbas?
Next to the Kenyanesian Usurper, the Bush family is the worst thing to happen to America.
The reason we are 30 million people down the road to becoming North Mexico is the Bush family.
Jorge Boosh - “more and more of our imports are coming from overseas”
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