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To: kabar; woodpusher; UMCRevMom@aol.com; BiglyCommentary; PIF; Kevmo; DoughtyOne; Red Badger; ...

It certainly was a provocation for Russia to be building up forces on the Ukraine border, although I remember at the time hearing it was supposed to be practicing military maneuvers. I guess the whole world did not imagine Putin would do something so rash as invade. And the US people in the know, both in the administration and on the various Congressional defense related committees, probably thought the same. I’m not sure that failure to imagine how evil, or ill, Putin was constitutes leading Ukraine down a primrose path to war.


68 posted on 05/17/2022 11:05:41 AM PDT by gleeaikin (Question authority)
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To: gleeaikin
I guess the whole world did not imagine Putin would do something so rash as invade.

The US-Ukraine agreement was like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Putin's July 12, 2021 article, On the Historical Unity of Russians and Ukrainians should have set off alarm bells. Putin put out the red lines and we chose to cross them. The war could have been avoided.

72 posted on 05/17/2022 11:35:32 AM PDT by kabar
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To: gleeaikin; kabar
I’m not sure that failure to imagine how evil, or ill, Putin was constitutes leading Ukraine down a primrose path to war.

And if Ukraine had not gone about failing to implement the Minsk ceasefire agreements, and blathering about becoming a member of NATO, it would not have invited Russia to visit an attitude adjustment upon them. Russia's doctrine toward Ukraine was as clear as the USA Monroe/Polk doctrine caliming two continents.

Beyond the issue of right and wrong, there is the issue of poking the bear when the bear is the biggest, baddest SOB in the valley and can kick your ass. Relying on others to put boots on the ground to fight your war is not a wise choice if it involves Russia and an unwinnable war. Nobody was obligated and nobody volunteered for that one.

Nobody had to imagine that Putin would do what he considered necessary. That's like putting missiles in Cuba and being surprised that the reaction was a naval blockade (an international act of war) and a threat to carry forward to a nuclear war if needed. That was not considered evil or ill when we did it.

80 posted on 05/17/2022 2:56:06 PM PDT by woodpusher
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To: gleeaikin; kabar
I’m not sure that failure to imagine how evil, or ill, Putin was constitutes leading Ukraine down a primrose path to war.

And if Ukraine had not gone about failing to implement the Minsk ceasefire agreements, and blathering about becoming a member of NATO, it would not have invited Russia to visit an attitude adjustment upon them. Russia's doctrine toward Ukraine was as clear as the USA Monroe/Polk doctrine claiming two continents.

Beyond the issue of right and wrong, there is the issue of poking the bear when the bear is the biggest, baddest SOB in the valley and can kick your ass. Relying on others to put boots on the ground to fight your war is not a wise choice if it involves Russia and an unwinnable war. Nobody was obligated and nobody volunteered for that one.

Nobody had to imagine that Putin would do what he considered necessary. That's like putting missiles in Cuba and being surprised that the reaction was a naval blockade (an international act of war) and a threat to carry forward to a nuclear war if needed. That was not considered evil or ill when we did it.

81 posted on 05/17/2022 3:02:56 PM PDT by woodpusher
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