Posted on 05/07/2022 12:29:38 PM PDT by CrazyCatChick
By that twisted logic, Mexico has a claim to "New Mexico."
Regards,
How long has Russia (or the Soviet Union) been a sovereign nation?
FACT is that, nobody has a right to declare a part of the world as owned by any other named part of the world.
Let’s all live like savages (or civilized regions), with territorial ownership declarations at will, like the first inhabitants of the planet.
“So you want to put the wishes of ancestors above living citizens?”
Come on, admit it. You don’t mind when America invaded and “annexed” Hawaii, because “Muh Manifest Destiny.”
Russia has 100X more claims over at least half of the modern (since 1991) Ukraine, than America EVER had over Hawaii.
Just admit it. Stop being a sanctimonious hypocrite.
You think invasions are great when WE do them. Bad when others do them.
Mystery-meat FReeper.. posting pro-Uke blog trash and asking dumb questions
I’m totally surprised.. it’s only happened over and over and over.
GTFO.
London School of Economics and Political Science
Dr Björn Alexander Düben
The effectiveness of the Army Commanded by the aforementioned group will determine the importance of their opinions.
So hopefully you won't cry when the russia’s ever shifting borders start shrinking again.
BTW the Ukraine war follows ‘decades’ of warnings by many that NATO expansion into Eastern Europe could provoke Russia....not to mention Putin has been clear for many years that if continued, the expansion would likely be met with serious resistance by the Russians, even with military action.
Furthermore That perspective isn’t held just by Russians; some influential American foreign policy experts have subscribed to it as well.
Biden’s CIA director, William J. Burns, has been warning about the provocative effect of NATO expansion on Russia since 1995. saying “hostility to early NATO expansion is almost universally felt across the domestic political spectrum here.”
I’ve always believed, as have many others that Putin’s sense of Russia’s insecurity vis-à-vis a much more powerful NATO was and is genuine.
“You think invasions are great when WE do them. Bad when others do them.”
You mean when she gets to see excitement of war on TV but it’s not her life on the line or being disrupted by going to war.
Ukraine was a sovereign nation and at peace when I was there. There was also no “separatist” movement in the Donbas then. But Russia, that took a slice of the Republic of Georgia, then turned its attention to the Ukraine and started taking slices of it and eventually attempted to take the whole enchilada. I think now Russia needs to be partitioned. Germany should get Kaliningrad. Mongolia should get a few thousand square miles to buffer its northern border. Ukraine should get all of its properties back and Russia should lose Sevastopol and the navy base. In addition, Ukraine should gain Rostov-on-Don and other Azov Sea areas.
Russia should concentrate on paving some roads, restricting central authority, and developing its many nether regions.
“If you accept Putin’s claim to Novorossiya, then we should give the US back to the people who occupied North America before 1300.”
Haha. Trouble is - that logic cuts both ways:
If you condemn Russia’s invasion of anything, then you should condemn the European invasion of North America, and give the US back to the people who occupied it before 1300.
By that logic, no nation really has a claim to anything - why single out Russia, when all nations have the territory they have largely as a result of past invasions?
By the way, I’m no fan of Putin, nor do I approve of Russia invading Ukraine - I think it’s disgusting. I’m just playing devil’s advocate in order to point out a flaw in the argument.
So in your world, all of the US ills justify Russia acting poorly in Ukraine.
You probably didn’t have parents that asked you if two wrongs make a right.
Do Orcs even have parents? I thought they were born of eggs under a bridge.
The fact that as you go down this thread you cannot find agreement on why Russia invaded Ukraine, tells you all you need to know about their messaging.
When the Orcs have their next zoom call, they should clarify this so they can spout it all over FR for the next few weeks.
It isn’t about what I or you think....neither have any say. It is howevver about understanding why things have esculated to where they are now - and you can’t discern that unless you see the view of Ukraines History and the US.Nato involvement prioe and currently in Ukraine.
Otherwise you’re like a cheerleader on the sidelines cherring for which ever team you want to win. ...and there is now win in this war. Even Putin knows and said as much.
There are far too many outsiders interested in Ukraines resources who only muddy the waters immeasurably. Especially our own politicians who already have a vested interest in Ukraines resources understood by most.
No matter how you want to paint the picture it still boils down to all that Putin said for decades is his red line - and that’s just the it of it. He’s certainly showing everyone he meant what he said.
“ we should give the US back to the people who occupied North America before 1300. ”
______________
That’s not a valid comparison at all. To make it more compatible as an analogy the Indian Reservations would have to begin invading neighboring towns.
Just so you know, that is really annoying - repeating your smug rhetorical question like that.
“Just say it out loud, you support America when we invade nations.”
I was okay with the invasion of France in the 40s. Should we not have done that? And when exactly did we invade Ukraine? We didn’t do that. Russia did.
“Hawaii, we just plain stole at gunpoint, and you support it”
At this point I’d be okay with granting Hawaii independence. It would get rid of 2 idiot Senators right off the bat. So go ahead and cut them loose. America would be bette off for it.
Come to think of it we “stole” most of the American southwest from Mexico. They were only too happy to sign the Treaty of Guadalupe after we beat the snot out of them in a war. Should we give Arizona, New Mexico, and California back?
Then there are all the Treaties we broke with several Indian tribes. Should we give Georgia back to the Cherokee? Florida back to the Seminoles?
I don’t like either side in this stupid war. But your logic sucks here my friend. It doesn’t matter what the Russians believe about Ukrainian borders or history. It matters what the Ukrainians believe. And right now they’re not all gung ho about being part of Russia again.
They tried that in the last 100 years and those merciful Russians starved half of them to death.
So I can empathize with their position. And I have just about no love for the Russians. They spent over half a century enslaving and oppressing Eastern Europe. So if they get their asses handed to them I’m not losing any sleep over it. In fact I think they’ve earned a righteous ass kicking.
That doesn’t make me an Azov Nazi or some kind of neocon stooge.
L
That’s right. NATO was going to prevent Russia from invading Ukraine so Russia had to invade Ukraine.
Well, now we have to prevent Russia from attacking NATO by destroying Russia.
That’s your logic so I’m sure you’ll understand when NATO tanks parade through Red Square. We have to do this to decommunize Soviet Russia.
I have no dog in this fight, but if one accepts Israel’s claim to their land, then Russia has a parallel claim in Ukraine.
After its founding in the 10th Century or so, Russia is termed “Kievan Rus” for a reason.
I have no dog in this fight, but if one accepts Israel’s claim to their land, then Russia has a parallel claim in Ukraine.
After its founding in the 10th Century or so, Russia is termed “Kievan Rus” for a reason.
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